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Re: Extending my question. Was: The relational model and relational

From: Steve Kass <skass_at_drew.edu>
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 00:49:35 -0500
Message-ID: <b372u8$c5q$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net>


Are you familiar with the Millikan oil drop experiment? I'm not aware of a more famous example of finding the cardinailty of a collection of indistinguishable objects.

In case there are still a few readers of this thread, I'll just remind them that I'm not disputing the usefulness of sets as a model, but just noting the usefulness to me of multisets as an alternative in some cases. I'm not proselytizing, nor am I despairing.

SK

Bob Badour wrote:

>
>You are talking nonsense. If this nebulous example is the heart of your
>argument, it's really not very strong. It's nothing more than handwaving and
>a desperate attempt to put words in my mouth.
>
>If multisets have any benefit to even start compensating for the loss of
>logical identity and for the loss of physical independence, you certainly
>have never presented it.
>
>
>"Steve Kass" <skass_at_drew.edu> wrote in message
>news:b35i1o$2u0$1_at_slb5.atl.mindspring.net...
>
>
>>If you can't weigh things without counting them first, I
>>highly recommend you don't try keep things in bags. This
>>little example is at the heart of why I think bags (when
>>appropriate) are a better model for some things, but they
>>are only appropriate to a user who perceives the real world
>>as a place where things can be weighed without first being
>>counted.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>It's interesting how you are trying to mischaracterize Date as using
>>primitive technology. Multisets are demonstrably more primitive than
>>relations--simply from the fact that they rely on physical location. You
>>are the one promoting the use of "Roman numerals and shells".
>>
>>
>>I'm only mischaracterizing Date to the extent that I may well
>>be misunderstanding what he meant to say. And it's not surprising
>>that we reach different characterizations of his writing, if the
>>way you interpret words also leads you to believe I'm promoting
>>roman numerals and shells.
>>
>>SK
>>
>>
>>
>>Bob Badour wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>If you cannot identify the cans of tuna, how do you place them on the
>>>
>>>
>scale?
>
>
>>>And before you can calculate a count from a weight, you must first count
>>>identifiable cans then weigh them.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
Received on Fri Feb 21 2003 - 23:49:35 CST

Original text of this message

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