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Re: Extending my question. Was: The relational model and relational algebra - why did SQL become the industry standard?

From: Steve Kass <skass_at_drew.edu>
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 16:30:06 -0500
Message-ID: <b2u8ht$9i0$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>

Bob Badour wrote:

>"Steve Kass" <skass_at_drew.edu> wrote in message
>news:b2rqnp$1tj$1_at_slb2.atl.mindspring.net...
>
>
>>Mikito Harakiri wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>"Paul" <pbrazier_at_cosmos-uk.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>news:51d64140.0302170330.15d2a98f_at_posting.google.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>OK suppose I have an employee "relation" which is a multiset.
>>>>I have two employees called John Smith, in the same dept on the same
>>>>salary.
>>>>So my multi-relation contains two outwardly identical tuples:
>>>>("John Smith", 10, 20000)
>>>>("John Smith", 10, 20000)
>>>>
>>>>Now one of the John Smiths has a sex-change and becomes Jane Smith.
>>>>
>>>>How does the user update only one of the rows?
>>>>Surely it's impossible because the two rows are only distinguished
>>>>internally?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>I think you are confusing your employees with your model.
>>If we have only the two employees named John Smith, in
>>department 10 with salary 20000, and we are storing this
>>information in a multiset, we have only _one_ fact, not two:
>>"There are two John Smiths in department 10 with salary
>>20000". Two employees, but only one fact.
>>
>>If we wish to change our data so that it now represents two
>>facts:
>>"There is one John Smith in department 10 with salary 20000".
>>"There is one Jane Smith in department 10 with salary 20000".
>>
>>we do so without any difficulty. There are many ways to
>>devise a physical representation of our multiset, and how we
>>transform it depends what the representation is.
>>
>>
>
>Exactly. Multisets have little utility for logical models, because one must
>resort to physical locations or addresses to make any use of the duplicates.
>
>
>

I'm afraid I disagree. Multisets have plenty of utility for logical models of items with multiplicities. As soon as you expect multisets to model something
else, you're not going to have much luck. It sounds like you are expecting the multiset to model the individuality of "the duplicates", and if you are, then
you are thinking of the duplicates as separate facts, and distinguishable. Multisets
don't model the "individual duplicates" as individual entities. If you want to do that,
you need to use a set model and include a distinguishing attribute with the entity.

SK

>
>
Received on Tue Feb 18 2003 - 15:30:06 CST

Original text of this message

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