Re: Oracle and Non-Green Card Indians

YVONNE BAUMERT, DECUS EUROPE AD-SIG CHAIR (y_baumert_at_decus.ch) wrote:
: Hello Mr. Smith,
 

: you have really shocked me!!
: First of all I suppose that the Indians you mentioned come from other American
: countries. You remember that Indians are the Native Americans?
: How awfull!! Some natives want there right to work on there continent.
: Give me a break.

That expression sound suspiciously American, Baumertster.

: Second of all I have read various versions like your artical mentioning other
: countries. The most famous ones come from Hitler. It really looks like a copy
: of one of his speaches. You only have to replace America with Germany or 3rd
: Reich and Indians with Jews and you have it.

Was Germany importing massive amounts of Jews to work for less in its factories? I didn't think so. Is speaking out against Oracle Corporation hiring massive amounts of Indians, via the H-1 loophole in the already liberal U.S. immigration laws, equivalent to Nazi Germany killing Jews who already lived there? I didn't think so.

: So I ask you
: WHO IS THE RACIST HERE???
Oracle Corporation, as they insist of giving a hiring preference to India and its cheap desperate H-1 applicants.

: Especially being german I am very scared by the apparently world wide rising of
: neofashism. Sorry, but what you wrote makes you sound like one.

Yeah, we have to let the BILLIONS of third world peoples take us over, or we are the bad guys. That's BILLIONS. Over 1 BILLION alone would come to Europe and America if you let them, from only one country, China. So your and others desire to take them in by only the MILLIONS, is quite discriminatory.

: Show me a graduated computer specialist who wants to do telephone service. You
: should be lucky that somebody does that work. I can more likely imagine that
: ORACLE has problems finding somebody for this kind of job who is qualified
: enough.

Americans will do any job, ANY job, if the pay is right. As proof, I offer you this: If you get a ugly sore or rash on one of your nether regions, some person is going to peer at it the next day, and tell you what it is etc. This job is ten times crappier than phone support at Oracle Corporation, but the people doing it have spend over 8 YEARS IN COLLEGE. Why do they do it? Because the pay has risen to a level that makes them want to. Now we could bring in tons of Indians to peer at the same sores, for less money. We could bring in tons on Indians to run Oracle Corporation for less money than Larry Ellison and his cronies get. But we aren't that consistent, are we?

: Some Neonazis in Germany give the same arguments about work that Turkish people
: do in Germany but they would not take these jobs. We should be gratefull to
: those people.

Yeah, we have the same nonsense over here. If Mexicans weren't allowed to flood the country illegally, then no one would do the jobs. Well, who did the jobs before the desperate Mexicans/Turks came flooding in, willing to work for less. Who does the jobs in areas where the Mexicans/Turks have not saturated yet? That's right, Americans and Germans.

: On the other hand you are blind if you think that compnies that have to survive
: on the international market, you know that there are other countries, can pay
: the trumendous salaries for work that somebody with less education can also
: do.

If your boss told you that he had found a Turk who was as good at your job as you, but that he would work for half the wage rate, would you volunteer to step down?

: Programming is such a work. And I consider it as totally normal. Somebody who
: graduated in computer science, emphasis on science, should not think that he'll
: be a programmer all his life. That's blind. He should focus on systems
: analysis and software engineering. That means he should do the creative part
: of software development. It's a lot of fun and worth the money you are paid.
: A university education should especially train these creative and
: organizational skills and should not produce a person that is only able to
: do one thing for the rest of his life.

That's right, just keep importing, and importing people to do any job that you can save a few bucks on. As long as we are fair, and import Indians senators, Indians Oracle Corporation Board of Directors, Indian Oracle managers, Indian etc..

: On the other hand you are lucky that ORACLE lets these people do programming
: in the states where they pay a lot of taxes. You gain a lot of this as well.
: Just consider what is payed by taxes in your environment. Very many big
: European counrties now outsource to India or the former Warschauer pact states.
I would rather have them take the jobs, over in India. That way, the roads are clearer, the skies are clearer, and you don't get a headache walking through K-Mart.

: Have you considered that ORACLE could have done that as well? Then all the
: taxes and the work would have been lost for the American people for good.

We have to pay through the nose for every foreigner that comes here, in quality of life detriment from crowding, added resource depletion, and the loss of housing affordability, as the third world crowds our land.

: Maybe ORACLE also has another pilosophy. Maybe they only train them for a year
: or two to set up the latin American telephone support in their home countries.

I am sure Oracle is looking to export as many jobs as they can to boost profits, and the government will gladly sanction it, if they pass a few bucks their way.

: You don't know why they do it. You problably don't even have any specific
: numbers about the amount of non Green Card Indians working for ORACLE in the US
: . Though you should maybe check on that before publishing something like you
: did.

I happen to know one or too people inside Oracle Corporation, and I also know of the agency that funnels them (H-1 Indians) in there. Overheard monthly at the water cooler "Next week I get my Green Card, now I can leave!"

Overheard in the boardroom "How much money would we save if we hired elementary school Indians during the summers?"

: I only hope that you are not aware of how fashist and racistic your article
: sounds. I bet if you would read some of Hitler'S stuff you would be shocked
: yourself how similar you sound.

That's right, anyone against the massive hiring of H-1 Indians by the Oracle Corporation, is a racist. And those that hire them, and champion their hiring, are only saints. Don't worry, I realize that you database weenies, grow to worship your RDBMS and the tools and corporation it is from, and I feel the anger you have when someone makes a comment against your IDOL.

: Democracy should be the important aim together with tolarance and the fight
: against ignorance. Only in that way business can be done.

Democracy works quite well in countries with no immigration at all.  Unemployement is a lot lower to boot.

: I'm sure you are a good person and just didn't think that far.

I'm sure that you will one day be a thinking person, and not a brain-washed one.

: Yours
 

: Yvonne Baumert

: In article <smithCz1psH.ByA_at_netcom.com>, smith_at_netcom.com
: ( David Smith at Cal Poly San Luis Obispo) writes:
: > Oracle Corporation, currently hires enourmous amounts of Indians, who do not
: > even have a green card, but have come to the U.S. under some ridiculous
: > law that permits it on the basis that they have critical skills
: > (Computer Science) that cannot be met by Americans. You will find them, not
: > only programming or what have you, but also manning the technical support
: > lines in large numbers. Seems odd to put recent immigrants on a phone support
: > line, but Oracle knows that a desperate immigrant fleeing his
: > impoverished country, will work for less, and they will save a few pennies.
: > Sadly, there is such a surplus of Americans looking for Computer Science type
: > jobs, that a 2 or 3 line classified ad looking for a programmer or
: > network person etc., will draw 200 resumes in a week, and a large amount of
: > those being from Computer Science graduates who have been unable to land
: > their first job. Is is morally right to allow Oracle to save a few bucks
: > while Americans with Computer Science degrees are unemployed. Would the
: > average American Computer Science graduate really be unable to man Oracle's
: > tech support phones? Would they be worse at it? Are the Indians racially
: > superior? I ask you Oracle advocates of the world.
: >
Received on Sat Nov 19 1994 - 08:38:10 CET