Re: Oracle Report Generator - SPAMMERS needed

Ed prochak wrote:
> "Howard J. Rogers" <hjr_at_dizwell.com> wrote in message news:<40947182$0$442$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>...

[snip]

>>Well, so you say... but personally, I can't be monitoring 4 newsgroups.
>>This one is quite enough!
>
>
> Which ONE is that, since you left the cross posting to three ORACLE
> groups??

Server, Ed. Server.

>
> So you cannot be bothered reading another group and therefore the rest
> of us must suffer wading thru junk postings? Rather selfish logic
> don't you think?

Selfish? Probably. You *don't* want to wade through junk postings, and I would call that a bit selfish, too. The last truly unselfish person I once caught a glimpse of has lately been canonised.

>>....... And I rather appreciated hearing here about
>>something which may or may not be useful to my clients, and with what
>>seems to me to be a totally upfront and fair offer of a freebie licence
>>for beta testers. Call me gullible, if you like.
>
>
> Now maybe if there were questions FROM USERS or POTENTIAL USERS about
> how the tool performed, it might go in the c.d.o.tools group. But the
> offer, free or not, really belongs in the marketting group. Deal with
> it.

He posted already, and so did I... so how about *you* deal with *that*.

[snip]

>>It is also clearly Oracle-related, at least in part, and thus falls (as
>>far as I am concerned) into the same category as me including
>>www.dizwell.com in my signature (whenever I can remember to use one) or
>>Jonathan letting us know about his next seminar dates.
>
>
> We've gone over this MANY times. Have you just now started read these
> groups?

Yes, Ed. Whatever. (How about checking on google before making daft comments like that one).

> A .sig is not in the same category as the start of this thread.

It is all marketing. I know why I include a sig, anyway.

>>He's not offering a job, or charging us for the privilege of being beta
>>testers, and I don't therefore think this falls under the category of
>>"marketing", where .marketplace would indeed be the appropriate venue.
>
>
> Sorry, but you are in the minority on this point.

Strangely, I have had four emails agreeing with me, and your one public, lonely, post stating the opposite case. So that rather suggests it is the other way around.

But whatever: this doesn't ultimately become a numbers game. My point was that when self-appointed policemen like you and Daniel start posting long-winded, high-and-mighty 'telling off' Usenet policeman letters in response to the post that started this thread, I end up wading through far more useless posts (by volume and by content) than if you'd just shut up and ignored the "offending" post in the first place.

Allegedly, we are all adults and can make our own minds up about what is appropriate for a particular group. If you dislike it, send the guy a private email pointing it out. But public posts to the effect that "you are a naughty boy" is as much unwelcome spam as the original post might have been.

>>Personally, I feel it is not particularly helpful to jump on people
>>offering Oracle information/applications/tools/information but where no
>>cash is changing hands, which you do a lot.
>
>
> It's not about the money. when will you see that?

Yes, you're right. It's not the money. It's the morally superior tone and attitude I can't stand.

[snip]

> We do need to speak out on junk postings since that is the primary way
> for newcomers to get a sense of whats appropriate and what's not
> appropriate.

If there were a lot of them, I could understand it, maybe. But there aren't, and newcomers generally aren't the kind of people who start posting about what a wonderful product they've just developed. It tends to be more along the lines of "what's a database?".

I think posts which are in the "wrong" group, and which bug you, should warrant a private email from you and anyone else concerned to the poster.

 >Few seem to read the newusers groups anymore. If we do
> not try to educate others about what's on-topic, this will eventually
> degenerate into something closer to an AOL chatroom, where any topic
> is is okay. Newsgroups are arranged into topics for a reason.

And my brain isn't compartmentalised for a reason, so I still say he did nothing particularly wrong, and the offending posts are Daniel's where he edited the original without making the edit obvious, and yours, where you continue to kick up a fuss about something which (apparently) hasn't bothered very many people besides yourself.

> And as I've pointed out (also MANY times), each group forms it's own
> culture about off topic posts.

And that's then set in stone, is it? And policed as it has been here??

> It does so thru discussion like this.

What? Discussions where you suggest I'm a newbie moron who has only just started reading the group? That sort of discussion??

> Right now the consensus is that commercial postings, even FREE offers,
> belong in the marketplace group.

And who determined that "consensus"? I don't remember being asked to vote on the matter.

>Daniel's posting is there to educate
> Mr. Molochnikov.

And when did Daniel apply for, and get given, the job of Supreme Educator of Newsgroup Culture?

>He can chose to learn from it or not. My posting here
> is to hopefully persuade you that marketplace is the appropriate place
> for his ad. You now have a choice too.

Well, on careful consideration, my choice is to ignore your post and continue to believe that "See my sister's big hooter" is off-topic spam that would be nice to get rid of (especially because they usually miss out the apostrophe) and "Free Oracle Reporting Tool" is something I can live with, wherever it happens to materialise.

If you feel strongly about a post, email the guy in your own time (good luck tracking down the Sister's and Hooter's posters, of course). But you don't have to clog up my time and bandwidth with your moralising, wanna-be-educative consensus-divining, replies, that's all.

HJR Received on Tue May 04 2004 - 00:23:51 CEST