Re: Corporate Acceptance of Creating Views ?

Why make life difficult for end-users if you as a developer can give them something to make it easier?
We have views in our company that are pages long, but our end-users use those all the time for their reporting (using Infomaker, Access, MS-Query etc).

--
Terry Dykstra
Canadian Forest Oil Ltd.
"Alan" <alanshein_at_erols.com> wrote in message
news:9rpnd1$viktj$1_at_ID-114862.news.dfncis.de...


> Tom,

>

> First, let me say that I consider you to be the planet's leading expert on


> almost everything Oracle. Your Wrox "Expert One-on-One" book is sitting

> within arm's reach. However, I am disappointed that your reasons for using

> views are all based on making life easier for the developer. My reasons

for


> NOT using views are based on making life easier (faster response time) for


> the end-user. I am still open to persuasion if you can give me some

reasons


> why views are better for the average corporate end-user (not power users


who


> understand how to make joins and so on). I realize that in some examples,


a


> view can be a more logical business construct for certain end-users, but


> reporting tools can hide the gritty details anyway. I'm not looking for

> justification of views, just to be convinced that they are beneficial to

end


> users, not just developers.


>

> "Thomas Kyte" <tkyte_at_us.oracle.com> wrote in message

> news:9rn75p0crk_at_drn.newsguy.com...

> > In article <9rmtmf$ugueb$1_at_ID-114862.news.dfncis.de>, "Alan" says...

> > >

> > >Although I don't "outlaw" views, I haven't found a compelling reason to

> use

> > >them. I create search tables that would otherwise be views, and index

> them

> > >for optimum querying. Some tables are partially or totally

denormalized,


> and

> > >some have every column indexed. I update the search tables nightly,


> weekly,

> > >or monthly, depending on business need. I don't have to worry about

> queries

> > >or indexing affecting OLTP, and query repsonse is excellent because

there


> > >are fewer joins needed. Also, I don't have the expense of a creating a


> view

> > >instance for each user.

> > >

> > >Of course, it really depends on the situation. We are not 7 x 24, so I

> have

> > >the luxury of running the search table updates overnight, the ad hoc

> queries

> > >are fairly predictable, and our security needs are pretty static.

> > >

> > >Anyway, I'm not dogmatic about it, but I do need to be convinced that a

> view

> > >is the way to go in a particular situation.

> > >

> >

> > why?  if the developer has a tool, wants to use the tool, sees value in

> the

> > tool, why wouldn't you let them use it?

> >

> > Sometimes, you just want to use it.

> >

> > I'll try to list some of the reasons:

> >

> > o layer of protection from changes.  I can have 50 reports use a single

> view,

> > when you change my structures, I fix A view, not 50 reports.

> >

> > o security.  I can build some cool security into them.

> >

> > o ease of reading code.  Instead of having mega lines of SQL in my

> procedure, I

> > create a view.  I can tune the view, I can change the view, the

procedure


> > remains the same.  I like my code to be readable, views can be of


IMMENSE


> help

> > here.


> >

> > You know what though, this is something that just plain and simply

doesn't


> need

> > to be justified.  Its a tool, its a tool to be used.  developers should


> not have

> > to justify to a DBA why they want to use this tool.

> >

> >

> > >"Thomas Kyte" <tkyte_at_us.oracle.com> wrote in message

> > >news:9rmeoj01bgk_at_drn.newsguy.com...

> > >> In article <eQoD7.43362$C7.13166440_at_news02.optonline.net>, "jane"

> says...

> > >> >

> > >> >Is it true that in general corporate enviornment, the use of Views

is


> > >> >discouraged ? even frowned up ?

> > >> >

> > >> >I was working with this "seasoned" developer on developing reports,

I


> am

> > >new

> > >> >to the Oracle enviornment

> > >> >and she insisted that I should NOT use views if at all possible,

> > >preferablly

> > >> >not at all.

> > >> >

> > >> >"You should be able to get all the data you need with straight

> SQL...even

> > >if

> > >> >it have to go for pages !"

> > >> >"...you are creating yet another dependency...it's another object

that


> > >has

> > >> >to be maintained !......"

> > >> >

> > >> >The thing was with tools like Crystal Reports, it does not handle

> manual

> > >SQL

> > >> >very well (requires

> > >> >a separate file to store the query)

> > >> >

> > >> >Is this true ? Was she full of bs ?

> > >> >

> > >> >thanks

> > >> >jane

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >>

> > >> I love views -- for the same reason packages are the only thing you

> should

> > >use

> > >> in real code (never a standalong procedure).

> > >>

> > >> Packages protect you from changes -- the SPECIFICATION won't


change --


> but

> > >the

> > >> implementation might (eg: you find a bug in the algorithm and fix

it --


> > >the

> > >> interface didn't change -- same inputs and outputs but the mechanics

> > >changed)

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> Views are the same way.  Underlying data structure changes (eg:

someone


> > >adds a


> > >> column, denormalizes a table, splits a single table into two,

whatever)


> > >don't


> > >> affect your CODE -- just your view.  Consider the view a

> "specificiation",

> > >fix

> > >> the view -- you've fixed ALL pieces of code that use it.

> > >>

> > >> There are some people who say -- you should NEVER query a table.  You

> > >should

> > >> always query a view.  These people are never phased by a request to

> change

> > >a

> > >> column name or the order of columns in a table definition as it is as

> > >trivial as

> > >> dropping and recreating the view now.

> > >>

> > >> I might not go that far (but when asked to change a column name -- i

> will

> > >rename

> > >> the table, create a view and grant on the view, no one ever

knows).....


> > >but it

> > >> shows there is a difference of opinion out there.

> > >>

> > >> Views are a tool, a programming construct.  Anyone who "outlaws" them


> is

> > >*wrong*

> > >> and being very short sighted.

> > >>

> > >> --

> > >> Thomas Kyte (tkyte_at_us.oracle.com)

http://asktom.oracle.com/


> > >> Expert one on one Oracle, programming techniques and solutions for

> Oracle.

> > >> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1861004826/

> > >> Opinions are mine and do not necessarily reflect those of Oracle Corp

> > >>

> > >

> > >

> >

> > --

> > Thomas Kyte (tkyte_at_us.oracle.com)             http://asktom.oracle.com/

> > Expert one on one Oracle, programming techniques and solutions for

Oracle.


> > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1861004826/

> > Opinions are mine and do not necessarily reflect those of Oracle Corp

> >

>

>