Re: The Revenge of the Geeks

From: BGB <>
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 22:31:13 -0600
Message-ID: <kdt1t7$m7e$>

On 1/24/2013 9:15 PM, Arne Vajh°j wrote:
> On 1/24/2013 10:10 PM, BGB wrote:
>> On 1/24/2013 4:58 PM, Arne Vajh°j wrote:
>>> On 1/24/2013 5:10 PM, BGB wrote:

>>>> On 1/24/2013 10:06 AM, Arne Vajh°j wrote:
>>>>> On 1/23/2013 11:47 PM, BGB wrote:
>>>>>> but, in any case, with the other languages there are a wide range of
>>>>>> libraries available, many under fairly open licenses (like MIT or
>>>>>> BSD),
>>>>>> and there is a lot more GPL stuff available,
>>>>> In the EE space you would need to look at CORBA or DCOM.
>>>>> You would prefer Java EE believe me.
>>>>> :-)

>>>> errm, so you can't just copy all the files over to ones' servers?
>>>> and/or
>>>> recompile the code for ones' servers?...
>>> The coding model in Java EE is definitely more modern than that
>>> of CORBA and DCOM.
>> I didn't mean like CORBA or DCOM, but probably directly copying over
>> program binaries (DLLs or SOs and precompiled binaries and similar), and
>> probably using traditional compilation and linking.
> You lost me.
> How to get the same type of services as Java EE provides is related
> to copying binaries how?

I may be missing something here...

because... it involves linking against and using libraries, correct?...

like "both languages have libraries, but maybe not the same libraries".

as in, for Java, you can copy around and use a JAR. or in C or C++, you link against the DLL or SO, or use a static-library (which then becomes a permanent part of the binary), ...

like, for Java there is LWOGL, and for C there is "opengl32.dll". or, one person uses AWT or Swing, and another uses GDI+ or WinForms.

if you have some program and need to run it on a web-server, it can be copied over into its "cgi-bin/" directory or similar, or set it to run at start-up as a deamon (or a as a service on Windows, or launch it via "start-up applications" or similar).

if end users run a program, they typically download it off the internet, maybe as a ZIP, or maybe as a self-extracting "setup.exe" or similar.

any libraries would be contained inside, and copied over into the relevant directories. any data files are typically copied along as well, and the installer might put everything in its place.

and, if a person needs new libraries for a project they are developing, they will go and download them off the internet, maybe recompile it from source, ...

I actually have little idea how DCOM or CORBA fits into this, as they are network protocols (like for doing RPC), but you don't generally need a network protocol for using a library, just the library itself (IOW: its compiled binary).

like, you might need something like these for accessing a web-service or similar I guess. (like, Google does something like this, for its search APIs and Google Earth and similar I think).

but, little idea what if-anything web-services have to do with using libraries though.

admittedly, I don't personally have much experience dealing with RPC or web-services though (and mostly use HTTP for file-delivery, well, and for providing a website).

but, for most client/server apps I am familiar with are more like: server runs somewhere (opening a listen port, for example, port 80 for HTTP, ...);
user downloads and runs client;
client opens socket to connect to server (such as TCP or UDP); then they share whatever data is relevant over the socket, using the relevant protocol (often application-specific).

say, the protocol does structured message delivery, either using globs of XML (like Jabber/XMPP or similar), or maybe some specialized binary message format, and sometimes with a "multiplexer" to avoid clogging up TCP sockets with large messages (by breaking large messages into smaller pieces), ...

then each end sees the messages, and handles them as appropriate (or reassembles the pieces, and handles complete messages when they arrive), ...

>>>> as for data sharing (between lots of networked servers), I am less
>>>> sure,
>>>> I would think maybe something like NFS or SAMBA, but then thinking of
>>>> it, NFS or Samba might not scale well if the number of servers becomes
>>>> sufficiently large (like, people would probably want to locally cache
>>>> files, rather than always doing IO over the network, ...).

>>> Persistent data in the the Java EE world is most often in database.
>> well, I meant for code and other resources.
>> or, to you mean putting code in the database as well?...
>> (like, put the JAR in a data-blob and fetch it out via a SELECT or
>> something?...).
> No.
> But as I said I am lost.

I am confused as well...

the whole Java SE vs Java EE thing has taken a turn into the confusing...

the former makes sense, because that is what a person gets when they go download and install the JDK or the JRE.

but the latter?... dunno. it sounds like something a bit different (not just an alternate version of the JDK or JRE).

> Arne
> Received on Fri Jan 25 2013 - 05:31:13 CET

Original text of this message