Re: Order entry service available

From: joel garry <>
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 09:25:57 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <>

On Feb 13, 3:55 pm, Eric <> wrote:
> On 2012-02-13, joel garry <> wrote:
> > On Feb 13, 1:54?pm, Eric <> wrote:
> >> On 2012-02-13, joel garry <> wrote:
> <snip>
> >> > Not pointless, it is for the other millions of spammers who might not
> >> > realize they are spammers and look before posting.
> >> Naive.
> > Quixotic, not naive.  Only the magnitude of effect is arguable, if you
> > think it is entirely null, the naivete is obvious.
> >> > Not sure why you say he _can't_ remove a posting, doesn't most posting
> >> > software have such an option?
> >> This is Usenet, the only way to remove a posting is to send a
> >> cancellation, and
> >> 1) there is no absolute guarantee that a cancellation will reach all the
> >> ? ?servers the message did
> >> 2) many servers ignore cancellations since they are quite easy to forge
> >> 3) some of the servers that ignore cancellations keep publicly
> >> ? ?accessible archives.
> > That's true, but you are being entirely too mechanistic.  You are
> > incorrectly assuming that because some cancels are ignored, all will
> > be and everyone will always be using servers that ignore.
> Some cancels are ignored (more than you think, I suspect). If the
> message is anywhere, someone may respond without snipping the Spam bit,
> then it is everywhere again.

I don't think so many are ignored. When it comes down to it, who wants to see cancels? Those who do, know how. Most would rather not, even if they find watching goofs entertaining.

> > That's like saying "don't use antibiotics because it will cause
> > resistance."  True about the resistance, but do you really want to be
> > a blind syphilitic?
> Anyone saying something like that is (I hope) actually meaning "don't
> take them all the time for every little thing even when they are known
> not to work". So not a valid analogy really.

Granted, crappy analogy, especially since I really wanted to emphasize the prophylactic usage, which is generally not used in that case. I know I've been given antibiotics before surgery to prevent opportunistic infections. "Opportunistic infections" of newsgroup spammers is one of things we are trying to prevent, specifically the monkey-see, monkey-do variety.

> > What you seem to be missing is that as an unmoderated forum, we have
> > to work in tandem to netcop.  Different people have different ideas on
> > how to do that, and since there are different spamming attacks -
> > spammers are not a homogenous group, the merely clueless might watch
> > and learn from responses - there needs be different defense
> > mechanisms.  Amazingly enough, despite so many "death of usenet"
> > assertions that it is a very old joke about "news at 11," this group
> > is still here and useful.  Many of us have been here since before the
> > beginning (which isn't a non sequitur, it used to be cdo before
> > cdos).  Some of us have seen that chest-pounding and clear assertions
> > do work against spammers - logic is not the primary factor, behavior
> > is.
> I have no problem with different views on how to treat spammers, but of
> course I may choose to comment.

Hey, that's what we're all about.

> From what you said plus the fact that you are posting through Google, I
> was inclined to believe that you had no idea how Usenet worked, and I
> answered on that basis. On the other hand I too have been here for a
> long time, so I strongly suspected otherwise. Indirect education of
> others again, perhaps? :)

If you've been here a long time, how could you possibly not know who I am? Even if you didn't, if you'd bother to look, you'd find a lot. Of course, if you are wading through cancels, you'd see all those idiotic forgeries, and would likely get a skewed view. Spamming not new to me:

And yes, I have the t-shirt:

Actually, I've been online in various fora since acoustic modems were all the rage. In the early '90's, my buddy paid for an extra phone line in my house so his bbs and usenet users near me could get local access.

> By the way, I never saw the original spam post, only your answer to it!
> No, I don't think it was cancelled, but I do have some filters.

Yeah, google doesn't filter and present as someone used to trn or whatever would like, but the ability to portal from anywhere regardless of local admin idiosyncracies is priceless. It became a habit when I was indie and never knew what kind of immediate access I would get at any site. Much as I badmouth the cloud, I've found it useful for a very long time.


-- is bogus.
Received on Tue Feb 14 2012 - 11:25:57 CST

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