Re: oracle has customers over a barrel
From: Mark D Powell <Mark.Powell_at_eds.com>
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 07:05:27 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <9aab1d00-eae4-4e6a-8d8e-47bcf36ac663_at_e8g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>
On Sep 11, 5:14 pm, joel garry <joel-ga..._at_home.com> wrote:
> On Sep 11, 11:42 am, jefftyzzer <jefftyz..._at_sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 11, 10:18 am, joel garry <joel-ga..._at_home.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Sep 11, 6:37 am, Mark D Powell <Mark.Pow..._at_eds.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Sep 11, 7:52 am, Serge Rielau <srie..._at_ca.ibm.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > Captain Pedantic wrote:
>
> > > > > > "Serge Rielau" <srie..._at_ca.ibm.com> wrote in message
> > > > > >news:7guq1bF2r6kklU1_at_mid.individual.net...
> > > > > >> DBA wrote:
> > > > > >>>http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/09_38/b4147052120632.htm
> > > > > >> There are those who bicker and those who act.
> > > > > >> So many new friends these days. :-)
> > > > > >>http://www.channeldb2.com/video/enabling-applications-from
>
> > > > > > DB2 supports Oracle SQL PL/SQL out of the box?
> > > > > > Really?
> > > > > > DB2 the mainframe database ...?
>
> > > > > DB2 9.7 for LUW, yes, not all of it, but enough to do "exception based"
> > > > > tweaks rather than redesign.
> > > > > In the coming fixpack we'll even do BULK COLLECT and FORRALL.
> > > > > There is a developerworks article written by myself outlining what's
> > > > > supported:http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/data/library/techarticle/dm-0907ora...
>
> > > > > Cheers
> > > > > Serge
> > > > > --
> > > > > Serge Rielau
> > > > > SQL Architect DB2 for LUW
> > > > > IBM Toronto Lab
>
> > > > From past experience IBM has made changes where we had to pay license
> > > > charges to keep using features that were bundled in some of our
> > > > existing IBM products prior to upgrades on our mainframe so IBM is no
> > > > angel. Nor is DB2 cheap. DB2 is available to run on Linux and I
> > > > believe on some other platforms as well.
>
> > > > As far as the claim in the article that mySQL is a competitor to
> > > > Oracle (or DB2 or SQL Server for that matter) it just really is not
> > > > true. Mission Criticial systems do not run on mySQL. If you need
> > > > ACID compliant systems you have to obtain a database engine to run
> > > > under mySQL. There are several available. Add an additional layer of
> > > > licensing and support. Nor is mySQL free for commercial use.
>
> > > > IMHO -- Mark D Powell --
>
> > > If you are a flickr or a google or a wannabe, your mission critical
> > > system may not require ACID. It's possible these kinds of companies
> > > don't always properly analyze when ACID _is_ required - mission
> > > critical (ie, serve users info) does not always mean run-the-business
> > > (get someones money). I know I've seen things go wrong where money
> > > transactions are involved. No excuse for that. Using a technology
> > > because you have the expertise in it is stupid if it is the wrong
> > > technology.
>
> > > mysql a competitor to Oracle? Technically, no, but business analysis
> > > doesn't put all that much, er, stock in the technical issues.
>
> > > jg
> > > --
> > > _at_home.com is bogus.http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/sep/10/bn10-911call-fatal...
>
> > A germane and provocative article in re: ACID transactions and other
> > RDBMS "must haves." Note the employer of the lead author....
>
> >http://www.sigmod.org/sigmod/record/issues/0903/p43.articles.florescu...
>
> > --Jeff
>
> Provocative, yes, germ-filled rather than germane.
>
> $ is simply a unit of exchange, putting it as an axis on a graph
> removes too much dimensional information. For example, solving a
> complex requirement is going to have a number of possible solutions at
> different price points, which would need to be expressed on additional
> axes.
>
> It is also not discrete, as no one pays list price if they have any
> choice, which they would if it were a free market, but even though it
> isn't they still don't.
>
> It is well-established in many vertical markets that making choices
> based solely on price is a mistake - how large of a mistake is based
> on how difficult it is to quantify non-monetary value. Accountants
> have recognized this for years with the concept of goodwill, even
> though MBA's are usually the ones who make the mistake of
> underestimating it. For example, how much are the rights to Tron
> worth? A couple of years ago, near-0. Now? But good luck trying to
> get rights away from the mouse at any time. How much is mysql worth?
> How about Opel?
>
> I'd propose a more radical solution: all the new application
> paradigms are _not databases_. They need a different name. Heap has
> another meaning - how about piles? The reference to hemorrhoids is
> probably appropriate.
>
> jg
> --
> _at_home.com is bogus.http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/sep/11/1b11moto213216-mot...- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 07:05:27 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <9aab1d00-eae4-4e6a-8d8e-47bcf36ac663_at_e8g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>
On Sep 11, 5:14 pm, joel garry <joel-ga..._at_home.com> wrote:
> On Sep 11, 11:42 am, jefftyzzer <jefftyz..._at_sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 11, 10:18 am, joel garry <joel-ga..._at_home.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Sep 11, 6:37 am, Mark D Powell <Mark.Pow..._at_eds.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Sep 11, 7:52 am, Serge Rielau <srie..._at_ca.ibm.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > Captain Pedantic wrote:
>
> > > > > > "Serge Rielau" <srie..._at_ca.ibm.com> wrote in message
> > > > > >news:7guq1bF2r6kklU1_at_mid.individual.net...
> > > > > >> DBA wrote:
> > > > > >>>http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/09_38/b4147052120632.htm
> > > > > >> There are those who bicker and those who act.
> > > > > >> So many new friends these days. :-)
> > > > > >>http://www.channeldb2.com/video/enabling-applications-from
>
> > > > > > DB2 supports Oracle SQL PL/SQL out of the box?
> > > > > > Really?
> > > > > > DB2 the mainframe database ...?
>
> > > > > DB2 9.7 for LUW, yes, not all of it, but enough to do "exception based"
> > > > > tweaks rather than redesign.
> > > > > In the coming fixpack we'll even do BULK COLLECT and FORRALL.
> > > > > There is a developerworks article written by myself outlining what's
> > > > > supported:http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/data/library/techarticle/dm-0907ora...
>
> > > > > Cheers
> > > > > Serge
> > > > > --
> > > > > Serge Rielau
> > > > > SQL Architect DB2 for LUW
> > > > > IBM Toronto Lab
>
> > > > From past experience IBM has made changes where we had to pay license
> > > > charges to keep using features that were bundled in some of our
> > > > existing IBM products prior to upgrades on our mainframe so IBM is no
> > > > angel. Nor is DB2 cheap. DB2 is available to run on Linux and I
> > > > believe on some other platforms as well.
>
> > > > As far as the claim in the article that mySQL is a competitor to
> > > > Oracle (or DB2 or SQL Server for that matter) it just really is not
> > > > true. Mission Criticial systems do not run on mySQL. If you need
> > > > ACID compliant systems you have to obtain a database engine to run
> > > > under mySQL. There are several available. Add an additional layer of
> > > > licensing and support. Nor is mySQL free for commercial use.
>
> > > > IMHO -- Mark D Powell --
>
> > > If you are a flickr or a google or a wannabe, your mission critical
> > > system may not require ACID. It's possible these kinds of companies
> > > don't always properly analyze when ACID _is_ required - mission
> > > critical (ie, serve users info) does not always mean run-the-business
> > > (get someones money). I know I've seen things go wrong where money
> > > transactions are involved. No excuse for that. Using a technology
> > > because you have the expertise in it is stupid if it is the wrong
> > > technology.
>
> > > mysql a competitor to Oracle? Technically, no, but business analysis
> > > doesn't put all that much, er, stock in the technical issues.
>
> > > jg
> > > --
> > > _at_home.com is bogus.http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/sep/10/bn10-911call-fatal...
>
> > A germane and provocative article in re: ACID transactions and other
> > RDBMS "must haves." Note the employer of the lead author....
>
> >http://www.sigmod.org/sigmod/record/issues/0903/p43.articles.florescu...
>
> > --Jeff
>
> Provocative, yes, germ-filled rather than germane.
>
> $ is simply a unit of exchange, putting it as an axis on a graph
> removes too much dimensional information. For example, solving a
> complex requirement is going to have a number of possible solutions at
> different price points, which would need to be expressed on additional
> axes.
>
> It is also not discrete, as no one pays list price if they have any
> choice, which they would if it were a free market, but even though it
> isn't they still don't.
>
> It is well-established in many vertical markets that making choices
> based solely on price is a mistake - how large of a mistake is based
> on how difficult it is to quantify non-monetary value. Accountants
> have recognized this for years with the concept of goodwill, even
> though MBA's are usually the ones who make the mistake of
> underestimating it. For example, how much are the rights to Tron
> worth? A couple of years ago, near-0. Now? But good luck trying to
> get rights away from the mouse at any time. How much is mysql worth?
> How about Opel?
>
> I'd propose a more radical solution: all the new application
> paradigms are _not databases_. They need a different name. Heap has
> another meaning - how about piles? The reference to hemorrhoids is
> probably appropriate.
>
> jg
> --
> _at_home.com is bogus.http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/sep/11/1b11moto213216-mot...- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
"It is well-established in many vertical markets that making choices based solely on price is a mistake"
Yes, it is, but unfortunately it is a mistake made repeatedly and often even repeated by the same people who made the mistake before.
IMHO -- Mark D Powell -- Received on Sat Sep 12 2009 - 09:05:27 CDT