Re: consolidation of multiple rows

From: Michael Austin <>
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 22:06:52 -0600
Message-ID: <DfoAj.61636$>

Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> DA Morgan wrote:

>> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>> DA Morgan wrote:
>>>> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>>> DA Morgan wrote:
>>>>>>>> If you know the names Date and Codd you should know who you are
>>>>>>>> addressing: Joe Celko.
>>>>>>> Not a name I am familiar with.
>>>>>> Says much about your attitude toward our profession.
>>>>>> Enlighten yourself:
>>>>> Not necessarily.  There are a lot of top notch programmers and 
>>>>> DBA's who have never heard of Joe Celko.
>>>> Well right now I can only name one. <g>
>>>> Of course you are correct. There are top notch programmers that
>>>> don't know who Chris Date is. There are top notch programmers
>>>> that don't know who Dennis Ritchie and Ray Boyce are either no
>>>> doubt.
>>>> Though I suspect you could put the names of those "top notch"
>>>> programmers on a 3x5 card.
>>> Quite incorrect.  Right off the top of my head I can probably name a 
>>> dozen I know personally who haven't heard of him.  He's well known in 
>>> some circles, but definitely not all.
>> The operative phrase here is "top notch." If they ever took even a basic
>> class on normalization they could not have missed the name Boyce. If
>> they learned more in C than "Hello World" they'd know who Dennis is.

> Not necessarily. A lot of great DBA's know normalization but don't know
> Boyce. And these are DBA's who manage databases in the hundreds of
> terabyte range, running sometimes tens of thousands of operations a
> second. They learned normalization techniques and maybe even heard of
> Boyce and Codd. But they have no idea who they were.
> And while they were famous 20 years ago, a lot of people who have
> learned C in the last 10 years or more have never heard of either
> Kernighan or Ritchie.

Unfortunately I know far to many "so-called" DBA's who "manage" 250+TB databases or OLTP databases that do thousands of txn/minute that have no clue about normalization or database design or the nuances of SQL programming. Managing databases, designing databases and writing SQL are really the three sides of the same coin... (yes, a coin is 3-dimensional) Each is necessary, but you can **do** one without completely knowing and understanding the other. (Since a coin is an inanimate object does it *know* it has 3 sides?) It is helpful if you have some understanding of the each, but in reality it is not necessary. Sadly we are the ones who answer a lot of SQL howto questions in CDM,CDOS and MPSP from those who call themselves DBA's and may have heard the names of these "legends of technology".

The other really sad part is that they were hired because they were "certified".

Michael Austin -
and I have heard of all of these guys... including Joe and even have (and read) some of their books. :) :)
"While commoditization may improve a company on Wall Street, over the last few years, it has stagnated the innovation in that technology. Nothing but the color of the box, price and customer loyalty differentiate many of the current offerings in computing technologies. --MA" Received on Fri Mar 07 2008 - 22:06:52 CST

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