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Re: Oracle Linux/Virtualization Software

From: joel garry <>
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 11:01:18 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <>

On Nov 30, 9:34 am, Robert Klemme <> wrote:
> On 30.11.2007 18:04, shakespeare wrote:
> > <> schreef in bericht
> >
> >> On 30 Nov., 14:53, hpuxrac <> wrote:
> >>> On Nov 29, 9:01 pm, DA Morgan <> wrote:
> >>> snip
> >>>> I'm not counseling blind acceptance. I'm not advising anyone to take
> >>>> anything at face value. Isn't it Tom Kyte who has advised over and over
> >>>> again the importance of not accepting claims made by self-anointed
> >>>> experts?
> >>> Well actually I think it starts back with the Greeks and Romans as far
> >>> as indo-european history goes.
> >>>> What is at issue here is the difference between scepticism (healthy)
> >>>> and
> >>>> cynicism (attitude). I am not saying Oracle is correct and I'm not

The thing is, the attitude comes from seeing the scepticism be validated over and over, followed by the cynicism being validated over and over. At least, that's why for me, and I suspect for Noons too. It's kinda too bad, my tendency was to be excited and enthusiastic over every new thing, until enough Oracle experience finally beat it out of me.

> >>>> saying Oracle is incorrect. Because I haven't tested the claim in my
> >>>> lab
> >>>> and don't know of any reputable independent source that has.
> >>>> What I object to is this cynical repudiation of a claim based solely
> >>>> on the person's attitude of unblemished negativity. There isn't one
> >>>> person here that has weighed in with a value judgment that any single
> >>>> data point, even a poorly created one, that supports their statement.
> >>> You know this blind advocacy of anything oracle is getting pretty old
> >>> here in cdos from certain posters. As far as I know my original post
> >>> in this thread concerning VM said this ...
> >>> "Oracle claims their VM is 3 times as fast as anything else. Sounds
> >>> pretty fishy to many of us."
> >>> Maybe you should read a definition of "fishy"?
> >>> All in all based on the hype from Larry and others in OOW 2007 without
> >>> any benchmarks provided, tangible testing results ... fishy seems to
> >>> be right on target to me. It might even be optimistic?
> >> Things become a bit clearer when looking at the FAQ:
> >> "How is Oracle VM three times more efficient than existing x86 server
> >> virtualization products?
> >> Oracle ran many performance benchmarks comparing Oracle products
> >> running with Oracle VM against the existing leading server
> >> virtualization product and also with Oracle products on non-
> >> virtualized operating systems on x86 and x86-64. Oracle consistently
> >> saw much better resource
> >> utilization with an average of three times less overhead using Oracle
> >> VM, and also saw significant
> >> scalability with virtual SMP. In many cases, the comparison with real
> >> hardware was approximately
> >> equal in performance."
> >>
> >> I interpret "three times more efficient" as meaning "the overhead of
> >> other VM products vs. real hardware was cut down to a quarter". So in
> >> cases of low overhead, the net gain is small and the claim sounds far
> >> less dramatic.
> >> The crucial questions here are of course: what is X? What hardware
> >> was it tested on? What applications were benchmarked?
> >> Kind regards
> >> robert
> > So to make a calculation (just as an example, no exact figures...)
> > If VMware has an overhead of 15 % (leaving 85% efficiency) Oracle claims
> > about 4% overhead (96% efficiency), giving an net efficiency gain of about
> > 11%.... which is different from 'three times as fast'.....
> Which they have not claimed as far as I can see. Although of course
> this is what they intended the reader to believe. Watch out for
> marketing speak! :-)

See , quoting Larry Ellison's keynote:

"This is the third time we've announced Oracle VM during OpenWorld," said Ellison, with an appreciative laugh. "You can download it for free and buy support if you want to, major partners endorse it, and all Oracle products are certified on Oracle VM; if there's a problem, you've got one phone number to call. Oracle VM is faster--in fact three times faster--than the competition, it's cheaper, and [it's] more scalable server virtualization."

I'd say Larry Ellison falls within the purview of "they." He certainly can't claim to be non-technical.


-- is bogus.
"In a recent Republican presidential debate, some of the candidates
pretty clearly suggested they don't believe in evolution. In a
Democratic debate, one candidate was grilled over reports he had seen
a UFO.  What's happening here? Where's the science? "  - Scott LaFee
"I saw those debates. It's a disturbing phenomenon. People simply
aren't making decisions based on evidence. I don't object to people
believing in God, but our thinking has to adjust to new facts and
discoveries about the universe. We're past the age of Galileo." -
Craig Venter.
Mr. Venter may be a bit over-optimistic.
Received on Fri Nov 30 2007 - 13:01:18 CST

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