Re: why administrator refuse to give permission on PLUSTRACE

On Nov 7, 5:58 pm, DA Morgan <damor..._at_psoug.org> wrote:
> joel garry wrote:
> > Having spent several years providing DBA support as Hasta is
> > describing, and many more on the other side of the fence, I must say,
> > he's totally right on this one IME.
>
> I have too but that isn't the way it should be and at some point we
> need to stop pretending that mediocrity is acceptable.

It is not acceptable. However, it is the reality, and reality is what we have to deal with. We can put out effort to change it, but to think we can make a lot of difference _quickly_ is a mistake.

>
> Would you accept this from your family physician? Of course he or she
> is not an expert on every possible disease. But if they couldn't
> triage what ails you they'd run short on patients quickly.

Don't get me started. They're people too, and we all know people who have been damaged. In fact, look up http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iatrogenesis - the majority of people in US hospitals are there for that. MRSA is the big buzzword now, and it doesn't mean Mr. System Administrator. Just yesterday a pharmacist told me wrong information, when I pointed it out, she took a second look at what she was looking at, then repeated what I said.

But what is more bizarre is that people who wouldn't ordinarily be suitable for triage may be better under more trying conditions: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/braun/20071031-9999-1m31braun.html

>
> How about your attorney? Did he or she memorize every law book on the
> shelf? Of course not. But they know how to find what they need when they
> need it.

Definitely don't get me started on this one! My lawyer is pretty good, beating the professional crap out of the others for anything I've had to deal with, but most are worse than average (because there are too many, and so the average don't perform at what should be the average level). I've personally seen several examples of lawyers more interested in marketing services than lawyering. The successful lawyers think like lawyers (whatever _that_ means, but is explicitly what law schools teach), _and_ use marketing techniques. The finding what they need part is the least of it. And it has long been true that most CEO's are lawyers, make of that what you will.

The parent of one of my kid's classmates was a downtown lawyer. He was bored, so would go off drinking and had an affair and got fired and now I have to somehow avoid explaining to my kid why he can't go over and play at the house with the nasty divorce going on.

>
> Arguing that because the DBA doesn't know everything is a rational
> reason to let the untrained and unqualified rat around a production
> instance is irresponsible so lets get back to this thread.

Did I say it was rational? No, it's just what I see. It's what we see on this newsgroup, and most every forum.

>
> The subject was ... check the Subject above ... PLUSTRACE and the claim
> by some the developers belong on production boxes with DBA privs. And I
> am saying absolutely NO!

Too absolute for my taste. It only applies given some presuppositions which aren't universal.

>
> Now if you think, as a developer, you belong on a production box with
> DBA privs then focus on what I keep asking and to which not a single
> developer has replied.

I've lost track, what was that again?

>
> If you think you've the skill to diagnose what is slow then post here
> the methodology you use.
>
> Are developers trained in the use of StatsPack?

You've never seen someone question the usefulness of StatsPack?

> How about ASH and AWR?

You've never seen a system without these?

> How about in the wait interface?

I'd say a good argument to be made that they should be.

>
> To identify problem SQL and PL/SQL does not require knowing the
> business rules. It does not require knowing the business logic.
> If you think it does you've already flunked the class on tuning.

Maybe the class isn't entirely correct then. Remember what the best performing SQL or PL/SQL is? That would be the SQL or PL/SQL you don't run. _Any_ methodology that doesn't take that into account is deficient.

>
> Fixing the problem requires that knowledge but the triage does not.
> And the fixing takes place in Dev and Test ... not on Prod.

Consider this: The Vice-President of Marketing, who happens to be married to the CEO and majority stockholder, is running a third-party tool on her PC that sucks entire large tables. Where do you fix that?

>
> Want to try again? <g>

I'd rather have a nice salad. <g>

jg

--
@home.com is bogus.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20071109/news_1b9tech.html