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Re: why administrator refuse to give permission on PLUSTRACE

From: DA Morgan <>
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2007 08:57:02 -0800
Message-ID: <>

Niall Litchfield wrote:
> Marc Blum wrote:

>> On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 21:23:42 +0000, Niall Litchfield
>> <> wrote:
>>> Marc Blum wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 23:11:51 -0700, DA Morgan <> wrote:
>>>>> Here I agree and I will go one step further. No developer should ever
>>>>> have access to a production database except as an end-user utilizing the
>>>>> application. I've yet to see a legitimate reason for any developer to
>>>>> have production access privs.
>>>> Maybe because there's some urgent issue to be solved, maybe production ist
>>>> coming to a grinding halt and there's a need for someone who knows the
>>>> requirements and the implementation and the technology to get rid of the issue
>>>> NOW! Production DBAs fail in the first and second point.
>>> If they do then at the very least the change control process if not the
>>> entire development process has failed. Surely the scenario above can
>>> only happen where the developers know what they are doing, why they are
>>> doing it and what they are doing it with - but unaccountably fail to
>>> tell anyone any of this? Equally a DBA that lets code to production with
>>> no idea of purpose, scope or impact isn't worth the name. 
>> hu? Do you live in the world of itzi-bitzi-mini-apps?

> sometimes, sometimes not. To be honest though my experience is that the
> larger and more complex the app, the better change controls are
> followed. A small bit of internet research will tell you what ERP system
> I currently support - it isn't typically a mini-app.
>>  In a production system, where the DBA is responsible for up & running of 100+
>> instances, and then a new system involving 20+ man*years of coding goes live,
>> then the DBA won't be the guy who knows the business rules implemented by this
>> big new app. 

> I'm sure places that have 1 dba for 100 instances/systems and yet 10-20
> developers for a single application do exist - I'd suggest though that
> they have got their funding priorities a little awry if a new
> development costs maybe 100 times as much to support as the systems they
> currently run the business on.
>> Hopefully he has been involved in the steps of capacity planning
>> but it is completely out of focus to incorporate him in the whole
>> requierement/system design/app development/testing etc cycle.

> How on earth do you capacity plan when you don't know what business
> processes are being implemented, what data they need, how many per time
> period there are, how and where the data will be stored and all the
> other things you've just cut the DBA out of. It seems to me that you
> haven't got a dba you've got a baby sitter.
>>> Mind you for
>>> all of the folks that have setups where the developers know the business
>>> and the dbas don't I sure hope the support calls all go to the
>>> developers first - anything else would be a misroute.
>> Support calls don't go to the DBA nor to the developers. These guys are in the
>> second or even third level support layer.

> If a business insists on keeping the dba in the dark then they cannot
> expect them to do any support.

I hereby apply my virtual signature to Niall's post. Well said!

My opinion of the development organizations represented here that are indicating they are allowed into production with DBA privs is that their IT management should be replaced. Just take words like governance, compliance, and change management and toss them into the dust bin.

Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington (replace x with u to respond)
Puget Sound Oracle Users Group
Received on Tue Nov 06 2007 - 10:57:02 CST

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