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Re: Looks like HJR is thinking about tossing in the towel?

From: joel garry <>
Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2007 14:07:33 -0700
Message-ID: <>

On Nov 2, 7:13 am, Steve Howard <> wrote:
> On Nov 2, 5:31 am, wrote:
> > On Nov 2, 10:46 am, hpuxrac <> wrote:
> > > I have been way too busy lately. I guess being busy beats the
> > > alternative.
> > > A recent blog posting notes that HJR is ( once again ) thinking about
> > > shutting down. I guess that doesn't surprise me a lot as I have
> > > noticed that he is sporadically posting here on cdos.
> > Try learning to read. The recent blog post asked the question, "Is
> > this site still worth keeping?"
> > I explained why I was asking the question: a lack of forum activity, a
> > lack of response to blog pieces. A general perceived sense that people
> > had moved on.
> > I got lots of answers, about 45 on the website itself, another 50 or
> > so via email. The consensus was, 'yes, the site is worth keeping, so
> > please keep it'
> > Which is why the even more recent blog post announced the fact that
> > the site would indeed be staying.
> > > Several thoughts in no specific order. The enthusiasm and quality of
> > > blogging about oracle has really spiraled down over the last 2
> > > years ... maybe the honeymoon is over?
> > Are you talking about me specifically at this point, or Oracle-related
> > blogging generally?
> > > Those people that do post the most are pretty much unchanged. The
> > > usual suspects with the usual ulterior motives possibly. Yeah the
> > > cherry sisters are still alive plus well ... you know.
> > > I have been thrown off HJR's site's more than once. I guess if you
> > > want to express opinions that don't agree with his viewpoint that's
> > > what happens.
> > No, that's not what happens at all. You get thrown off the site for
> > being a dumb-ass trouble maker that doesn't know when to stop digging
> > no matter how deep the hole.

Yay! I _love_ being a dumb-ass trouble maker! I wish I could post in bold on usenet so I could be a dumb-ass troublemaker here!

> > > However much more than that HJR's site has gone through so many
> > > versions and providers and reincarnations that it was probably very
> > > hard for people to keep up. Vague good intentions of preserving older
> > > content just never happened.
> > You really do need to get out and about more. The site hasn't changed
> > providers in 10 months. It hasn't changed format or content in over a
> > year. The old content is still there, exactly where it's always been,
> > and I went to especial efforts to convert all old wiki content into
> > new knowledge base content. There were never any "vague good
> > intentions of preserving older content", but concrete promises to do
> > just that which have been kept.
> > The forum content was indeed wiped (more than 12 months ago) because
> > conversion issues were just too tricky to deal with, plus I can tell
> > what people read on the site and posts from over 12 months ago isn't
> > it. It would have been a waste of effort to convert it, which is why I
> > announced, again very concretely and specifically, that that
> > particular bit of site content would NOT be converted.

I'm still wondering how you tell what people would have looked for had you not wiped it. Especially since they may be looking with search engines not on your site.

> > > C'est la vie toujours tout la meme. It would be good to see HJR back
> > > here on cdos but I am not sure he has the appetite for it any longer.
> > If there's one thing I hate more than people pontificating about
> > Oracle non-factually, it's people pontificating about my state of mind
> > on even less evidence and with even less accuracy or regard for the
> > facts. When I don't have the appetite for it any longer, I'll be sure
> > to post a message to that effect just before I switch off the site.
> > Asking people whether the site is still useful doesn't even get close.
> > > It's a tough choice putting in so many hours on something that doesn't
> > > bring in any additional revenue.
> > No, it's not. The only tough choice I have ever had to make was
> > whether I was being useful to enough people.
> > Idle, ill-informed, obviously biased and factually erroneous
> > speculations such as yours presented here are one of the main reasons
> > you got booted off the site. With justification, I'd have said,
> > judging by this complete dollop of tripe.
> This thread is really interesting to me, on a variety of fronts. This
> isn't related to you, but it just reminded me I have been thinking
> about this stuff, recently.
> To me, Oracle blogs (or any blog) are exactly that...a web diary. I
> log stuff all the time (although google still hasn't found me), as it
> helps me to clarify my thoughts on how things in my day job work. I
> don't feel a duty (specially since no one knows my blog exists, LOL!)
> to provide a service for what is just a log of my thoughts/
> understandings of technology stuff.

I'd much rather know where your blog is than some adsense whore. (not referring to hjr! I mean those ripoff artists who put other people's content on their blog then post the link here).

> This thread is also interesting to me on the front of "kicking people
> off". In the last six months, I have also killfiled a few *extremely*
> prominent posters on this board, because I just couldn't stand how
> they treated newbies. My life (at least in terms of reading this
> group) has improved immeasurably since doing so.

Too bad, if you helped group disapproval, calling them on it and giving examples of how it might be expressed better, you might be helping the newbies. Of course, I can't know if you can see this :-O

> As such, I have been thinking recently that a group run membership
> policy (not here, but on a site such as yours) would be a good thing.
> Accepted by "majority vote" democracy type of thing. Are there legal
> issues with this? In other words, what if a "scorned poster" posts
> things from a different IP, etc., which get the forum owner in legal
> hot water? Would this idea itself drive away good contributors?

Democracy - 2 wolves and a sheep voting on the dinner menu. That's why there needs to be protection of minority opinion, taboos, bills of rights, or similar. Every sort of group run membership is going to have to deal with allegations of cabalism of one sort or another (TINC! ). And of course, some people who are really good at some things who are really bad at creating and enforcing policies (no secret that I think hjr is one of those - and I still would encourage him to continue to be himself and post loud and long everywhere he thinks it is useful, and just don't be an admin - which is not the same as saying he should shut down his site).

As far as the legal issues, murkiness doesn't begin to describe it. But yes, some people will be driven away because of them. More people would be driven away by social issues, I would guess.

> Drawbacks for sure, but worth considering?

Everything is worth considering, personally, I think remembering the past condems it all. It's a big cyberworld, there is room for variety. Some things have life cycles that end, some things evolve, some things have life cycles that are... cyclical. Unmoderated newsgroups have a staying power in their flattening of social hierarchy. BBS's often have cliqueishness issues. Blogs are still in flux as feed and pingback infrastructure develops, they take the hierachical flattening of usenet and lose the back-and-forth communication.

I must say, the current trend toward tag clouds look like just a pile of mush to me (even on my own on flickr).


-- is bogus.
Your certification, please.
Received on Fri Nov 02 2007 - 16:07:33 CDT

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