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Re: command line vs grid control

From: <>
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 16:13:01 -0700
Message-ID: <>

We can always rely on you to provide high entertainment value when life on usenet gets boring Daniel :-)

Lets discuss a few of todays tidbits shall we?

> Perhaps where you are. Where I am most companies of an size
> have Oracle on-site for their line-of-business applications.
> Including, though I expect the whining to begin immediately,
> Microsoft, which I know for a fact, just last week, was bringing
> in more people with Oracle skill sets.

Are you seriously still trying to claim that MS runs its SAP Financials on Oracle? We had this out several months ago, I gave you your shot at proving the statement, you chose not to. either support your case or recognise its fud and move onto using one of your other sticks, we can have fun with all of them!

And before you start nitpicking about whether MS wrote cheques to oracle or not lets be very clear. Its very important to MS and our customers that Oracle(all of its products not just the RDBMS) run on Windows, its also important that the recent apps that have been purchases(Siebel, Peoplesoft, JDE, Hyperion etc) continue to support SQL Server where appropriate.

As part of that partnership MS works with Oracle closely on a number of fronts, in the SQL Server Team there is integration with Oracle for replication, for Integration Services, for Analysis Services(which has an Oracle cartridge), for Reporting Services (which has an Oracle plug in), and the EDM Team. In addition the VS Team works with Oracle as a VSIP partner.

In addition MS has bought companies that use Oracle technologies, either run on top of the RDBMS or they use Oracle apps and being a responsible company we don't force those companies to immediately switch to SQL Server and our ERP systems, it takes time and during that time we have to have full support for what is a critical component to that portion of the company.

> For the vast majority of what I see hereSQL Serverisn't
> really on the radar screen ... not just because it isSQLServerbut because of Windows. And Vista has set Microsoft
> back quite a distance: It is, at least in its current iteration,
> a horror story.

Lets not confuse a client OS with a server OS. SQL Server Express runs on Vista and in certain circumstances Workgroup and Std. You cannot run EE, you can run Dev Edition but not for production.

SQL Server has had the largest RDBMS growth for the last couple of years of IDC reports, 40% of new SAP deployments are on SQL Server, its seen 30%+ yr/yr growth for the last 18 months in a segment thats growing < 15% no matter whos measure you take. I guess you are just in the wrong accounts as the rest of the world is seeing plenty SQl Server.

> Cheaper? I'm not sure that is correct. Are you comparing Oracle
> EE with Microsoft EE? I hope not. Lets compare Microsoft EE
> with SE1. No amount of money in Microsoft technology will get
> you RAC or TAF or Data Guard or numerous other technologies.

Oh pulease! What if I don't want RAC or DataGuard? what if I want BI? (yeah I know there is a new SE1 for BI as well now but its not the Oracle Enterprise offering, which is still an addon to the RDBMS EE last time I checked). And also lets start doing real numbers, what is SE1 BI? 1000 a named user? So if I need 6 users its the same price as an unlimited(Per proc) user copy of SQL Server Std Edition, that single proc could have 4 cores which gives me a nice powerful machine with high quality RDBMS, OLAP, Reporting, Integration and Data Mining. In terms of memory I can that on a sweet little x64 box and have a great BI solution. And lets not forget that on that Std box have the choice of Log Shipping, Database Mirroring or 2 node failover clustering (or that the standy as long as it is cold in all these cases is free so does not increase the license cost I mentioned). Remind me again what the CPU/Core, Memory and HADR options are for SE1?

> However I would like to drag you back to what started this thread
> which was shell scripts. Written any shell scripts in Windows to
> manageSQL Serverlately? No anyone that has?

I know lots of SQl DBAs that write OS scripts in VB Script, and .Net languages, many are starting to use Powershell which is a very cool tool, if you are ever near a Svr 2008 machine I suggest playing with it, I suspect you might like it, don't worry no need to admit that in public. I also know lots of SQL DBAs that do not write OS scripts, the key is, they have a choice.

> > Any wonder Microslop's db market share has sustained
> > higher growth than db2 and oracle combined, for 6 years
> > now? And let me also state this: Oracle isn't making any
> > friends with their constant "the dba is evil" nonsense...
> At the rate my friends in Redmond are going they may never produce
> another version of a major product again. The place is growing
> more and more dysfunctional with each passing year.

Wow that a bold statement given that we just announced the launch for VS and SQL 2008. Yep you get to beat us with the Vista stick, no-one here is going to stand on stage and say they were proud of how long that took (or even SQL 2005) but we are addressing the mistakes we made and you are already seeing the impact of those changes.

You know Daniel its a shame that your attitude really pollutes your posts so heavily. I think Oracle is a fine product, I think SQL Server is much better but I have nothing against Oracle the RDBMS, I got my start developing commercial Client Server apps using 7.x as a back end, I thought Data Mart Suites was a great concept, but as a member of the SQL 7 beta I thought MS was going to change the RDBMS and BI industry and I wanted to be a part of it, hence I ended up where I did, however I still recognise that there is other stuff our there that is valuable to customers and that will be around for a very long time to come.

You on the other hand are wasting some of your talents, you are obviously a very knowledgable Oracle guy, and to a certain degree about database theory and systems in general, I've actually enjoyed the presentations of yours that I have seen/been in. But your bigotry/ bias is so extreme and innacurate that you actually hurt the Oracle cause as much if not more than you help it in these scenarios, and thats sad and a waste of your talents.

-Euan Received on Wed Jul 11 2007 - 18:13:01 CDT

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