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Re: command line vs grid control

From: DA Morgan <>
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 08:50:38 -0700
Message-ID: <>

Noons wrote:
> On Jul 11, 12:55 am, DA Morgan <> wrote:

>> Want to take bets on the number of DBAs currently running production
>> databases that are not in archive log mode? The number that think an
>> export is a backup? The number that think tuning means cache-hit ratios?
>> The number still separating tables and indexes into separate tablespaces
>> "for performance?"
>> Of course anyone and everyone can point to examples of bad stuff
>> happening. I've no doubt everyone here has a horror story or ten.

> Of course! And it ain't grid that is going to stop that.
> And in what shape, format or otherwise is grid
> gonna stop them doing that? Last time I looked
> it does not impose that they must run archive log mode,
> or stop them from doing exports, or any of the
> other two?

By itself it isn't. But to the extent that it puts dangerous fingers into a GUI it ties their hands. You can do a lot more damage in BASH or KORN than you can in OEM.

For the extreme example ... you might find it rather difficult to do rm -rf in the grid. But realistically ... if it makes it easy for some people to use RMAN or manage Data Guard or set up alerts it is an improvement.

I'm not going to argue whether some screaming expert can or can not write shell scripts that do what needs to be done. But I will argue whether the vast majority of DBAs, many who cut their teeth in versions 6 and 7 can even figure out the difference between a datafile and a tempfile.

>> But you might also reread some of the questions/issues posted here
>> in this group. Would you be willing to run some of these people's
>> shell scripts? I know I wouldn't.

> Sure. But do recall that folks learn. And grid doesn't
> teach anyone anything: it just imposes one way of
> doing things and doesn't even provide details of what
> the heck it's doing.

Maybe you don't do what I do ... teach. But I can assure you that the difference between "can learn" and "do learn" is a chasm of unimaginable size for some.

But you are missing some of the more important aspects of OEM grid.

You can't write a shell script to check metalink for patches.

You can't write a shell script that enforces a uniform set of alerts and warnings on all databases in an enterprise.

You can't write a shell script that will access ASH or AWR without buying the licenses.

You can't write a shell script to duplicate ADDM.

... the full list is rather extensive but I hope these examples demonstrate my point. And with 11g new advisors will increase the delta even further.

Nor, to use the OEM grid you are not required to buy every single pack Oracle builds.

>> This may come as a shock to you but from what you've posted here
>> over the years ... you hardly qualify as the average DBA. You should
>> not assume others know what you know and are as good as you are: They
>> are not.

> I also know for sure that I made many errors along
> the years and it was the process of learning
> from those errors and continually improving that
> made me, hopefully, a somewhat better dba.

But please also acknowledge that each and every one of those errors had an attendant price is time and brass.

> What I see with grid is a bad case of
> "swish and click" pseudo-magic that achieves
> nothing in terms of improving real knowledge
> and creates a false sense in folks that they
> are "doing the right thing".

For the majority that is an improvement. What do you think is the percentage of all DBAs in all organizations that right this second, if an incident occurred, could run a StatsPack or a 10046 trace and understand the result?

Now of those that couldn't ... and we both know it is a very large percentage ... how many could look at a color graph and see a spike?

That is the reality of the marketplace.

> Worse: it encourages the "do as Oracle says" approach, which has been proven
> damn wrong along 30 years.
> Let's not forget who *really* started the bchr, ok?
> Hint: it was NOT Don...

If the goal is perfection it isn't going to happen. If the goal is to bring everyone up to the level of mediocrity or better it will.

There is nothing that says you can't use the OEM Grid to handle most things and extend it with your own skills and knowledge. This is not a zero sum game.

Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington (replace x with u to respond)
Puget Sound Oracle Users Group
Received on Tue Jul 10 2007 - 10:50:38 CDT

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