Re: Designing database tables for performance?

On Feb 28, 1:22 pm, johnbhur..._at_sbcglobal.net wrote:
> On Feb 26, 8:38 pm, "joel garry" <joel-ga..._at_home.com> wrote:
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> > On Feb 24, 5:30 am, "Cimode" <cim..._at_hotmail.com> wrote:
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> > > On 23 fév, 22:33, "jgar the jorrible" <joel-ga..._at_home.com> wrote:
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> > > > > In what RAM would be less physical than HD ? For any reason, an
> > > > > absurdity is an absurdity.
>
> > > > Not an absurdity, you just aren't paying attention to how the I/O is
> > > > counted.
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> > > So you say there are *ways* to count IO's. Fair enough. Question is:
> > > what has the way of counting IO's has any bearing on the media that
> > > supports them and therefore qualifies their nature as physical or
> > > logical? What is the difference: speed?
>
> > > Physical IO means that IO have some physical inmemory/hd counterpart
> > > while logical IO mean *no media* at all as a prerequisite.
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> > > > From Oracle's point of view, if the desired data exists in
> > > > Oracle's buffers, that is a logical I/O.
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> > > As I said, I am well aware of ORACLE brainwashing over its troops.
> > > ORACLE succeded to convince the audience of practictionners that RAM
> > > (call it cache if you want) = logical. One of Larry Ellison
> > > *contribution* to the field of database technology. Reading and
> > > educating yourself in RM will help you see the absurdity in that. (See
> > > rule of indepedence netween logical and physical layer)
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> > > [Snipped Description of process - thanks for the pedagogic intent
> > > though]
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> > > > Now, you are welcome to think it is better to be more simple than that
> > > > and just say RAM I/O is the same as HD, but that sounds patently
> > > > absurd to me. Perhaps you have a better way of distinguishing the
> > > > semantics?
>
> > > It sounds absurd because Larry Ellison has brainwashed people like you
> > > (no disrespect meant) *not* to think otherwise to boost up his
> > > products sales and bank account. Read books written by knowledgeable
> > > audiences about RM and you will see what I am refering to.(was in your
> > > shoes once long ago;)) A few good books to read that may help...
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> > >http://www.dbdebunk.com/books.html
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> > F'n Pascal? "no disrespect?" HAHAHA
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> ???
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> > When were you in my shoes? Do you realize I was awarded "Go Oracle
> > user of the month" for standing up to him 15 years ago (when he was
> > unfairly maligning some poor guy who's management stuck him with some
> > usual product). Kinda scary that some people still remember that,
> > though.
>
> What was "Go Oracle user of the month"? Clueless here

One of the earlier collection of moderated BBS's was Compuserve. You would tell the command line to GO <whereever>, the Oracle one was pretty active and helpful. Celko and Noons were there, I think Michael Abbey, and lots of others I can't recall offhand, some of whom may still be around. I haven't used that aspect of Compuserve for a number of years (I think the name has changed for Oracle support forum), but I still use my same account daily, even if it is part of AOL. Being user of the month wasn't like being an Oracle ACE, or mentioned on oramag but it did come with a free month of connection fees or something, and bragging rights.

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> > Actually, I agree with a lot of what Date and Pascal say, I just have
> > problems with Pascal's elitism and anyone who says Larry Ellison has
> > brainwashed people like me. I started on relational databases in 1980
> > and didn't run into Oracle until '83. I _did_ purposefully throw my
> > lot in with Oracle around '89 as I saw it gaining the upper hand
> > commercially. How one gets from there to brainwashing is beyond me.
> > And until about 10 years ago I did a lot of work (paid, not
> > theoretical, sorry) on issues having to do with multiple db engines.
> > After that it was a simple fact of life that Oracle was top dog.
> > Perhaps that involved brainwashing decision makers, I wouldn't know.
> > I certainly have had no problem saying bad things about Larry or
> > Oracle when I feel it is relevant, and laughing outright at marketing
> > BS. That's one of the benefits of being an independent.
>
> Date of course is well known and deserves a lot of respect. Has a
> great ability to take tough subjects and produce readable and
> interesting sources of knowledge.
>
> Not sure exactly who the other person is.

That's pretty funny. Tom Kyte's blog referred to him for a while. Hey, I thought you were involved in the discussions on one of hjr's now-gone sites Fabian got involved in... hard to remember who's been where, especially with aliases and people being kicked off.

For some reason, people totally ignore the parts where I say I mostly agree with Date and Pascal. The realities of the business world simply make them irrelevant for many practical solutions.

>
> Joel's usually pretty reasonable but gets somewhat excited and
> sometimes hostile about the changing nature of IT employment in terms
> of contractors and work being moved off shore.

Excited? Sure, this is our livelihood we're talking about!

Hostile? Well, perhaps. I'm hopefully not as hostile as I project, except when I'm talking about negative personal experience (and funnily enough, there's stuff I haven't posted about). I do embarass myself at times. But it's overcompensation, if I didn't make an effort to communicate I would totally shy out.

jg

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