Data Goob wrote:
> Noons wrote:
>
>> Serge Rielau apparently said,on my timestamp of 29/07/2005 8:52 PM:
>>
>>> Funny, I thought assembly language to rules supreme.
>>
>>
>>
>> That too, but I'm not a masochist... Done my time with
>> 360 and 370 Assembler thank you very much: I leave that
>> for the zOS DB2 programmers. ;)
>>
>>>
>>> Folks are debating DBA skills in these forums. Ever tried to get
>>> C/C++ skills? It's a b**** to get a good C programmer nowadays.
>>
>>
>>
>> Actually, they are pretty easy to find in Australia. And cheap, too.
>> Same goes for VB and C# programmers, BTW. Nowadays it's harder to
>> find a J2EE guy than anything else, as a matter of fact.
>>
>>> Certainty the kids who wrote C when they were 16 and hit the job with
>>> 10 years experience don't exist anymore.
>>
>>
>>
>> Yeah but they were never any good. I'm talking about professional
>> programmers. Not script kiddies writing TSRs for fun.
>>
>>> Point being, you wouldn't go back to micro-coding, you wouldn't go
>>> back to assembly. Too expensive in labour, too unwieldy.
>>> C/C++ is already turning into a niche skill.
>>
>>
>>
>> Begging your pardon, that's the biggest pile of marketing dung
>> out there. I understand it's not sourced from you. But it's
>> totally untrue.
>>
>> Which language do you reckon the ENTIRE edifice of GNU and open
>> source software is built on? And Linux? And Apache? And most of
>> the opensource appservers? And just about every other piece of
>> commercial software for the PC environment? Adobe software,
>> for example? Symantec? The entire edifice of Windoze/SS/Microsoft
>> Office software? DotNot itself?
>>
>> Java/J2EE??? Pah!! Freakin' NO WAY in the darn world!!!
>>
>> Do you think there is ONE LINE of Java in ANY search engine
>> out there? It's ALL C and C++, Apache, opensource OS and s/w and
>> script languages, Serge. I'm in the thick of it now, I know what I
>> see. 3/4 of all that crap you hear about Java/J2EE and internet
>> technology is TOTALLY and UTTERLY false: a complete hoax!
>>
>> Don't believe the marketing BULL that Java has taken over the world:
>> it's the biggest hoax I've ever seen! DotNot and c# alone have
>> MORE developers than ALL the Java dungheap!
>>
>>> The abstraction layer just keeps on rising because Moore's law and
>>> inflation favours throwing Hz and bytes at any problem over brain.
>>
>>
>>
>> You can't throw Hz at a J2EE app and expect it to run well.
>> Believe me, I've seen that approach daily. For 4 looong years.
>> It never worked, not even ONCE!!!
>> I've seen piddly apps with less than 200 tables in them
>> throw a big iron server (name with-held but it has 3 letters)
>> completely out the window. The darn thing is so moronically
>> inefficient it doesn't matter how much hardware you throw at it,
>> it just WON'T work with any SIGNIFICANTLY large app.
>>
>>> See above. You, I, we are too expensive. We expect our salaries to rise.
>>
>>
>>
>> Nope. Wrong again. Middle age experienced techos are
>> a dime a dozen and dirt cheap compared to snotty kids who
>> expect to be on the way to the 5th million by age 28.
>>
>> Besides, the middle age mob IS experienced, has had ALL
>> the training they need and has a work ethic that no
>> modern snotty kid can match. And it can learn c# dirt easy.
>> We are dirt cheap nowadays, Serge. We don't need expensive
>> training, we can read a book and make sense of it, we're past
>> the age of raising babies or taking long weekends on the booze.
>>
>> The Java mob doesn't stand a hope in hell against that:
>> their learning curve for anything is ten times as high
>> and expensive. Don't believe the marketing crap you hear.
>> It's all rubbish peddled by IDE and snake-oil vendors.
>>
>> DotNot beats the sweet bejesus off J2EE, any time you might
>> care to compare them with anything slightly more complex than a
>> moronic shopping cart. And there is very little Java in it,
>> if any.
>>
>> Which do you reckon is gonna win, something that takes 2 days
>> and a mouse to learn, or something that requires 4000 pages
>> of just the basic user guide?
>>
>> I was told many times over the last 4 years that without Java
>> I couldn't find a job anywhere. Complete hoax. Once I got
>> terminally pissed-off with the pile of rubbish I was being fed
>> at an IBM VAR and started looking, took me two months to find
>> one. Can't complain. And no, I didn't take a pay cut.
>> Quite the opposite. Then again, I never charged the silly
>> small fortunes of the y2k era...
>>
> Amen!
>
> I see one or two Java jobs occasionally now and then, almost
> never. Don't know where the shops are that are using Java, and
> most certainly don't see any commercial applications using it.
> I have seen a couple of file-manager-applets, but not much
> else, or installation programs. Maybe inside intranet apps,
> but even there never heard of many.
>
> If there are commercial applications, they are either C++ or
> scripted like PHP, Perl, ASP, or C#.
>
> The rest what Noons said.
>
> :-)
Again the deciding factor may be geography. I see a lot of Java
here in the US Pacific Northwest. See a lot of .NET too ... but
the interest in .NET seems to be waning and interest in PHP
increasing.
--
Daniel A. Morgan
http://www.psoug.org
damorgan_at_x.washington.edu
(replace x with u to respond)
Received on Sat Jul 30 2005 - 12:32:27 CDT
