Re: Intenational character sets

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 20:04:11 +0100, Frank van Bortel <fvanbortel_at_netscape.net> wrote:

>Ed Stevens wrote:
>> On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 17:34:16 +0100, Frank van Bortel
>> <fvanbortel_at_netscape.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Ed Stevens wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 23:28:02 +0100, Sybrand Bakker
>>>><gooiditweg_at_sybrandb.verwijderdit.demon.nl> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 13:07:49 -0600, Ed Stevens <nospam_at_noway.nohow>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>===============
>>>>>>OMS does not have the database issue when the CHAR fields in the
>>>>>>database use a BYTE semantic. This is what was set when we developed
>>>>>>OMS. However, the CHAR fields were changed to use a CHAR semantic
>>>>>>since french characters use more then one byte. When this was changed
>>>>>>to the CHAR semantic, that is when the issue arised.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I tested changing the database fields to a BYTE semantic again and OMS
>>>>>>does not have the issue. From there I changed it back to use the CHAR
>>>>>>semantic and recreated the mapping between the EJBs and database
>>>>>>again. Again the issue occurred. There is a flag in Websphere that
>>>>>>you can set for each field in an EJB to use the semantic CHAR or BYTE.
>>>>>>I have made sure this flag is set to CHAR when I performed this test.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I see this as a issue between the mapping of a String field in the EJB
>>>>>>to a CHAR field in the database using the CHAR semantic.
>>>>>>=================
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Translated
>>>>>(and I don't know Websphere at all)
>>>>>Websphere needs a 2-byte characterset (so anything UTF) to store
>>>>>French characters (which is obviously quite ridiculous, as French
>>>>>characters are in any Latin-1 compatible 1-byte characterset)
>>>>>The database uses an one-byte characterset (or NLS_LANG on the
>>>>>webserver is set incorrectly)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Thanks for the reply. Immediately after my first post I started
>>>>digging thru the docs. (I know that is usually backwards, but
>>>>remember, my fundamental question was "where to start reading"?) After
>>>>reading several relevant portions of "Database Globalization Support
>>>>Guide" I've at least got some framework of understanding now. It
>>>>looks like the database itself is well positioned for this, having bee
>>>>created with characterset WE8ISO8859P1. My guess at this point is
>>>>that their problem can be handled easily and elegantly with use of
>>>>NLS_LANGUAGE on their end and they just need to be educated on that
>>>>point. Unfortunately, at this point I still haven't gotten a response
>>>>from the developers -- just their manages wanting to know when *I* am
>>>>going to fix their problem!
>>>>
>>>>Film at eleven ..... ;-)
>>>>Thanks.
>>>>
>>>>- Ed Stevens
>>>>
>>>>Cohn's Law: The more time you spend in reporting on what you are doing, the less time you have to do anything. Stability is achieved when you spend all your time doing nothing but reporting on the nothing you are doing.
>>>
>>>Ed, you know you will never be able to store a 2 byte character in
>>>a 8-bits Oracle database (and West-European on top of it! :) ).
>>>So, whatever angle, you're going to loose on this one....
>>>
>>>And... Sybrand is right: French characters do not take more than
>>>one byte - most of the time.
>>>
>>
>> Well, at this point, I *don't* *know* a whole lot -- and understand
>> even less. ;-) (Though, yes, I do understand that if one truely
>> needs double-byte character support, the db has to be created for it.)
>>
>> What I thought I understood was that French characters *can* be
>> represented in a single-byte character set. Specifically, the
>> Globalization Support Guide, in table 2-3 specifically says French is
>> supported with ISO8859-1. I was hoping that the developers were just
>> assuming that because a few French characters don't appear in the
>> English/American alphabet they necessarily require double-byte
>> representation and so were exploring ways to do that.
>>
>>
>>>Call a managers meeting, tell 'em what the options are:
>>>1) decide on a single byte character set, or
>>>2) decide on a multi byte character set.
>>>
>>>If 1), it's the nls_ settings and websphere..., if 2, you need
>>>to rebuild your db, as 8859P1 is not a subset of UTF.
>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> - Ed Stevens
>>
>> Cohn's Law: The more time you spend in reporting on what you are doing, the less time you have to do anything. Stability is achieved when you spend all your time doing nothing but reporting on the nothing you are doing.
>
>Assuming UCS2 clients (Windows!), and a websphere application that
>generated uses encoding=ISO-8859-1, the browser should take care of
>the 2 byte to 1 byte conversion.
>Because, according to ISO-8859-1, the french characters (what _are_
>french characters?!?) are included in the upper half of the code set.
>
>The Globalization Guide shows all characters, doesn't it? Ask
>whether they expect other characters as well, and act accordingly.
>
>And have them meet madame guillotine :)

"(what _are_french characters?!?"

You've got me! I was thinking there are some variant diacritical marks, like the German umlauts. However, a Yahoo search on 'French alphabet' led me to
http://www.single-serving.com/French/GP/alphabet.php, which only shows one such character.

*As an aside, my degree being in music, I feel comfortable reading/pronouncing -- but not understanding what I'm saying -- Spanish, German, Italian, and Latin. But French? The few times I've had to sing something in French convinced me that there is no connection between their written language and their spoken language! Thanks.

• Ed Stevens

Cohn's Law: The more time you spend in reporting on what you are doing, the less time you have to do anything. Stability is achieved when you spend all your time doing nothing but reporting on the nothing you are doing. Received on Mon Jan 31 2005 - 13:31:14 CST