Re: So what if 8i is outta support ?

DA Morgan wrote:

[snip]

>> 
>> 
>> And an entirely sensible one, if you ask me.
>> 
>> I'd employ a SQL Server user if he showed a bit of get-up-and-go, a
>> willingness to learn, a willingness to research, a desire for precision
>> and facts. Point of fact, I did once employ a database instructor who had
>> worked his entire career previously in Quark Xpress page design. And he
>> turned into the best instructor I ever employed.
>> 
>> It is as utterly daft in my book to toss out a CV because it doesn't
>> mention 9i as it is to toss IN one because it contains the magic letters
>> 'OCP'.
>> 
>> Regards
>> HJR

Not what I did. I remember reading them all and thinking, "God what a boring fart" and "Hmmm. Could be moderately interesting". Sadly, I never had the epiphanous "I want this one!". But if you can't find the time to assess all aplicants, then you aren't doing your job properly, or you aren't phrasing the job advert carefully enough to limit replies to the vaguely plausible.

> 2. Throw away the ridiculous

I remember thinking that lives were on the end of my decision, so I went back through my discard pile. I only managed to resurrect 3 CVs (and they didn't get the job) -but at least my conscience was clear.

> 3. Separate into 2 piles ... those with the skill and posers

I seem to recall separating the pile into those with no hope of developing, versus those who might.

> 4. Throw away the posers

I never threw anyone away without thinking that they were people.

> 5. Separate into 2 piles ... those with current skill set and those that
> need training.

Fair enough.

> 6. If the first pile is big enough, and these days it always is, throw
> away the trainees.

Nope. I well recall having to weigh up whether the people who came with a skill set came with an attitude too. I wanted open-minded people. People who would learn and (more importantly, perhaps) be enthusiastic as they did it. Quite often, the skilled, trained know-it-alls came across as arrogant bastards that needed taking down a notch or three, which it was my pleasure to do in interview.

Those people that said "I don't know. But here's how I would go about finding out" stood tall in the entire process.

> 7. Start telephone interviews with the possibles.

Nope. The telephone is a very artifical medium. I want to see the guy's facial expressions. I want to *see* his (or her) enthusiasm.

> 8. Bring in for face-to-face the best 3 to 5.

Started with these. Wouldn't have missed it for the world. Remember Maria Callas: "Even the humblest student can teach you something".

> 9. Make an often difficult choice.

Agreed. But fundamentally, when one knows, one knows.

> 10. Hope you made a good one.

Disagree. Once the decision has been made, it's inevitable and irrevocably a good decision (otherwise *you* deserve to be sacked).  

> Not once in 3 years have I ever felt a need to go back to the discard
> piles because I didn't find what I needed.

I think that's sad. I well remember my boss, as we walked into the confirmation interview, saying to me "Howard, are you totally insane? Are you really saying you want me to interview this person. There is *nothing* on his CV worth commenting on. You're joking, right?" And me replying, "Trust me Chris. This one is going to be worth it".

And when I left the company about two years later, he got my job.

As I said, best call I ever made.

>
> But be honest here ... given two people with equally good experience ...
> one with 8i, 9i, and 10g experience and one with 8i ... and I said
> equally good ... why would you pick the person with only 8i? Ever?

Because I would want someone who doesn't post incoherent crap in a newsgroup as so many here do. Mastery on one's language, written and spoken, counts a lot. Then I want someone who has imagination. Who has an open mind, who cares about facts and the precise documentation of facts. On top of that, I would want someone who *cared*. Who'd be enthusiastic, and put the customer first. And none of that comes necessarily with Oracle experience. So I'll balance said experience with those other qualities.

Fundamentally, I know I can teach anybody anything about Oracle in about three weeks. And that goes for new recruits, too. I don't need people who think they don't need my services. But I do need people who bring an energy and an enthusiasm that might be otherwise lacking.

> And
> think of yourself here as an employer ... not a charity.

See above. Every employment decision I've ever made has been on the basis that our customers will love this guy... because he isn't obviously, and from the moment he steps from his BMW, a complete wanker. Instead, he listens and learns with us, whilst yet simultaneously propelling us towards better knowledge of the product -a very tricky skillset to master, and one in which none of your CVs will indicate a prior history. And it's totally business, and no charity decision.

Regards
HJR Received on Sun Oct 24 2004 - 03:28:47 CDT