Nice post and discussion Mark, which I had entirely missed.
--
Niall Litchfield
Oracle DBA
http://www.niall.litchfield.dial.pipex.com
"Mark Rittman" <mark_at_rittman.net> wrote in message
news:40ce046b$0$4584$db0fefd9_at_news.zen.co.uk...
> Hans,
>
> You might be interested in this blog posting
> http://www.rittman.net/archives/000860.html which looked at some of the
> concerns around objected-orientated developers (originally in the context
of
> agile development) treating Oracle as a 'bit bucket' for storing data in.
> What I thought was interesting was Jeremy Millar's comments re: Toplink,
> which apparently addresses some of these concerns (lets you design o-o,
but
> deals with the Oracle database intelligently, supposedly best of both
> worlds), and the comment by Andy Todd which I think sums up what is
probably
> the best approach -
> "I think the best approach is to use the strengths of your database in
> combination with the strengths of your programming language. On the
> continuum between fully object oriented and fully database centric I think
> that the sweet spot lies somewhere in the middle. If you veer to far to
one
> side or the other then you are doing yourselves (and your customers/users)
a
> disservice."
>
> rgds
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
> "Hans Forbrich" <forbrich_at_yahoo.net> wrote in message
> news:MFMyc.12787$lN.438_at_edtnps84...
> >
> > I'm looking for some rational discussion/links/books related to the
> thought
> > and engineering behind the 'middleware object vs database entity/stored
> > procedure' discussion.
> >
> > Everything I see is based on one of two premises:
> > "[in our shop DBA is king and therefore] all goes into database"; or
> > "[the Java developers are king and therefore] our business demands that
> > nothing except the data goes into the database".
> >
> > The above arguments are generally based on lack of experience ("all I
have
> > is a hammer"), purely religious or emotional and are generally
> meaningless.
> >
> > What I need is some straight forward discussion that helps decide, in an
> > open minded shop, what to look for or how to decide (eg: benchmarks) to
> > find the proper mix of middle tier and database tier responsibility.
> >
> > This would include the arguments from the DB side of "enforcing business
> > rules when people bypass the middle tier" as well as the arguments from
> the
> > AS side of "smaller, portable machines for application scalability".
> >
> > Why: I'm tired of the "we need to be database independent" argument. I
> > firmly believe that 100% database independence is nonsense:
> >
> > a) from a technical perspective - referring to the demonstrations in Tom
> > Kyte's books should be sufficient argument;
> >
> > b) from a business perspective - if you buy Oracle database, then
> developing
> > & maintaining one line of code duplicating Oracle's extended
functionality
> > is a serious waste of business resources. (Stick with MySQL or
PostgreSQL
> > if you just want a data bucket)
> >
> > Any pointers or links to supported arguments appreciated.
> >
> > TIA
> > /Hans
> > forbrich at remove_this dot telus planet dot net
>
>
Received on Mon Jun 14 2004 - 16:15:33 CDT
