Re: Where to find discussion of EJB vs Database

Hans Forbrich wrote:
> I'm looking for some rational discussion/links/books related to the thought
> and engineering behind the 'middleware object vs database entity/stored
> procedure' discussion.
>
> Everything I see is based on one of two premises:
> "[in our shop DBA is king and therefore] all goes into database"; or
> "[the Java developers are king and therefore] our business demands that
> nothing except the data goes into the database".

The key here is that databases - and applications must be designed. Not just coded. They cannot just be thrown together - add a column here, a table there, willy-nilly every where - and expect it to perform, because I can guarantee it won't perform and then management and the users will be screaming at the DBA because "the database needs tuning".

If your developers start coding the first line of code before the functional spec is complete and the logical design of the databse is finished, there will almost always be performance problems in your future. Too many companies have their developers just "throw" something together because we need it now, and then fuss and fight and yell and scream when it performs like a 20-ton anchor.

A lot of developers and managment today have the attitude that they don't need to spend weeks or months "designing" because they feel it is a waste of time and money. When in fact, it will save them 10x that if they don't because of user complaints of "slowness", and hiring consultants to tune the database or downtime to make this or that parameter change - all in vain because the logical "design" is the source of the bottleneck.

Again, no amount of tuning - either application, OS or database or bigger/faster hardware - will ever overcome a poorly designed database.

>
> The above arguments are generally based on lack of experience ("all I have
> is a hammer"), purely religious or emotional and are generally meaningless.
>
> What I need is some straight forward discussion that helps decide, in an
> open minded shop, what to look for or how to decide (eg: benchmarks) to
> find the proper mix of middle tier and database tier responsibility.
>
> This would include the arguments from the DB side of "enforcing business
> rules when people bypass the middle tier" as well as the arguments from the
> AS side of "smaller, portable machines for application scalability".
>
> Why: I'm tired of the "we need to be database independent" argument. I
> firmly believe that 100% database independence is nonsense:

Of course it is... this is obvious... while there are standards, they are all implemented differently and I have never seen an application moved from one database engine to another -- without making enormous database and/or application changes.

>
> a) from a technical perspective - referring to the demonstrations in Tom
> Kyte's books should be sufficient argument;
>
> b) from a business perspective - if you buy Oracle database, then developing
> & maintaining one line of code duplicating Oracle's extended functionality
> is a serious waste of business resources. (Stick with MySQL or PostgreSQL
> if you just want a data bucket)

either you value your data or not. plain and simple.

>
> Any pointers or links to supported arguments appreciated.
>
> TIA
> /Hans

Michael Austin. Received on Mon Jun 14 2004 - 09:58:57 CDT