Re: Where is Oracle’s Grid ?

Daniel Morgan <damorgan_at_x.washington.edu> wrote in message news:<1072754108.418011_at_yasure>...
> Comments in-line.
>
> Noons wrote:
> > A better analogy is that when I buy a Ford truck and put a load on it,
> > I darn well expect it to be able to carry the weight. Or else stop
> > calling it a truck.
>
> Ok lets go with your analogy. You just bought a Ford pick up truck. You
> hook it up using the trailer hitch to a pair of 30 foot trailers loaded
> with lead ingots.
>
> Are you going to blame Ford?

For those who may not have seen it, Volkswagen had a hilarious advertisement showing a classic large Airstream trailer hooked up to a New Beetle, tilting the front of the car way up in the air. Then you turn the page, and it shows the Touareg SUV hooked up to the same trailer.

Turns out people bought Touaregs with the intention of towing their Airstreams, then discovered they couldn't. So VW had to buy them back, and offer to buy back all others to maintain good PR. :-O

http://www.autoweek.com/search/search_display.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=carnews&content_code=04707550&Search_Type=STD&Search_ID=1782891&record=1

Even the VW doco couldn't get it right (see question 2.34): http://homepage.mac.com/jsewell/index.html

>
> The load on Oracle created by third-party apps is not of Oracle's
> making. And based on my work at AT&T Wireless and knowledge of what goes
> on at Amazon.com here in Seattle I can assure you that I could put
> 10,000 times the load on Oracle you've seen at your best and Oracle can
> handle it.
>
> Provided I designed the schema and wrote the code.
>
> I've no doubt I could similarly write a simple stored procedure that
> could bring down any database.
>
> BEGIN
> LOOP
> INSERT INTO obj$
> SELECT * FROM obj$;
> COMMIT;
> END LOOP;
> END;
> /
>
> Would you blame this failure on Oracle too? Want to see me write it for
> DB2? Informix? Sybase? Ingress? SQL Server? It isn't the database
> vendor's fault that people write bad code.
>
> >>How can you hold Oracle responsible for the horrible design, coding, and
> >>deployment of someone that only builds after-market bolt-on parts?
> >
> > I don't. But when Oracle claims its tuning toolset is capable of
> > doing so and it clearly isn't, there is something wrong...
>
> I disagree. It is. I've used it successfully many times. But Oracle's
> tools can't tune garbage ... garbage needs to be rewritten. And tools
> can't be used to tune what was written in C or C++ by people whose
> knowledge of SQL seemingly consists of being able to spell it.

My complaint is where Oracle evolving creates garbage out of working code.

>
> Why do you think you should be able to use back-end tools to tune what
> has been coded into the front-end?

Optimizer claims to be able to figure it out.

>
> >>What Oracle sells does fix things. But only if someone bothers to read
> >>the documentation, learn how to use it, and then deploys it in an
> >>appropriate manner.
> >
> > Nope. Sorry, it doesn't. Maybe in 10g and that is still to be proven
>
> Nonsense. Going all the way back to 7.3.4 and before there were tools
> that could have been used to make those third-party apps run better. The
> problem was that you can't tune what you can't change.

So why can't Oracle let us change things (that's a knuckle-wrap for the hints-through-source mechanism)?

>
> > in the conditions of the "coal face" out there. Don't forget: it is NOT
> > yet released!
>
> You won't like it either. Because you still seem to think that a tool
> intended for PL/SQL should be able to modify compiled code written in C++.

So PL/SQL is the answer to all problems?

>
> >>I understand yours and other people's angst. I have had more than my
> >>share of run-ins with Siebel and other app vendors. I've even had
> >>run-ins with accounting firms that incorrectly installed Oracle's own
> >>applications.
> >
> > Bingo! Yet, do you hear Oracle for ONCE putting some of those accounting
> > firms' nose out of joint? No way Josay!
>
> I think they should ... but you are changing the subject.
>
> >>But before you pull the trigger I'd suggest taking more careful aim.
> >>Oracle has made plenty of mistakes: Metalink is full of them. But you
> >>should not blame Oracle for the mistake your firm made buying that
> >>after-market carburator and having your next door neighbor's teenage son
> >>install it.
> >
> > And maybe Oracle should not make the mistake of blaming the poor sods
> > who have to cop the crud dished out by these makers: the production DBAs
> > out there. Who have over the years put up with the rubbish from EVERYONE
> > including Oracle and are now being pushed out of a job by Oracle's marketing.
>
> Oracle's marketing is not pushing anyone out of a job but you are
> correct that a lot of people will probably lose their jobs in the next
> ten years. Same thing happened to all those that bet their careers on
> COBOL, RPT, ALGOL, shall I go on? You need to modify your skill set.

Noons is able to defend himself, but I must say, Oracle has been pushing us to modify our skill set to what, java? Portal code generators? OEM buttons? My crystal ball is just showing the bottom of a quaranteed cow stall.

>
> > And being blamed left right and centre as the root of all evil. It's not
> > that they don't know what to do or don't want to do it. It's that they are
> > NOT allowed to do it.
>
> And that is Oracle's responsibility? How so?
>
> > Maybe Oracle should start encouraging vendors to let DBAs do their job
> > instead of just acting as trained monkeys? I know this will stuff their
> > marketing plan to sell trained monkeys at a premium. But that's a plan that
> > WILL backfire badly.
>
> It isn't Oracle's responsibility. I think the root of this entire thread
> is that you'd rather complain about that which you can not change rather
> than change the things you can. Were I in your shoes, and I've been
> there a few times, I'd:
>
> 1. Update my resume
> 2. Find a job where I had the control I desired
>
> And that is exactly why I am doing what I am doing and enjoying every
> minute of it.

Can't say as I've seen too many houses of ill repute that need database tuning :-)

>
> And yes I know the market is rotten and that in Oz it may be worse than
> other places. But there are jobs to be had for those that have the
> skills and put in the effort.

Hmmm, maybe _that's_ why Oracle kept sending me all those video server cartridge plug-ins...

jg

--
@home.com is bogus.
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