Re: Where is Oracle’s Grid ?

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 15:25:58 +0000, Hans Forbrich wrote:

> sal wrote:

>> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> It’s curious but I can’t find any word about Grid in documentation
>> of just appeared 10g OAS. Probably, the same situation will be
>> with upcoming 10g database.
>> May I make conclusion that Oracle 10g Grid is only marketing hype ?
>> I think that Oracle’s Grid means a big RAC (former OPS).
>> --
>> SL

Misunderstood?? I thought we're discussing the oncoming release of Oracle RDBMS, not quantum physics. BTW, Microsoft didn't announce Longhorn, oracle did. May be oracle shouldn't adopt Microsoft marketing practices unless you want to arise the same type of sentiments?

>
> Realize that '10g' is a brand and not necessarily a product. Which,
> according to 'accepted practices', means it is entirely under control of
> the marketing organizations, not product development!

Ah, you work for Oracle. Why didn't you say so in the first place? Let me guess: you work in 10g product marketing, don't you? You say 10g is a brand and not a product? Now that's a new concept in the database software area. It really instills me with confidence in oracle marketing. You crack me up, Hans.

>
> There are aspects of the product & feature set that will be released
> under 10g that are currently available for review.

That probably means that we're being saturated by marketing buzzwords, "white papers" and "articles". Not gonna work.

> However you will not
> be able to see all parts of 10g until it is released.

And we may not care to see it after it is released. As a senior oracle DBA, I will delay the implementation of oracle 10 for as long as I am not fully convinced that my company should migrate to it. Part of the time will be spent on learning the product.

> Even those beta
> testers who have signed a non disclosure agreement will likely not be
> able to see everything in the complete package - in part because of the
> compile package description and what was available at compile time.

Hans, try to speak English, not marketing lingo please. Beta testers do not see source code. Beta testers have nothing to do with compiler, compilation. or "compile package description" whatever that may be.

>
> Some other aspects are available for download at http://otn.oracle.com
> and may be moved or redefined at any time and without notice. This is
> exactly the same practice as Oracle's competition uses. (I aready hear
> the whining by people who download and use the beta as a 'competitive
> edge' or put it into production - 'you changed ... not fair!')

Oh, you are definitely from oracle marketing! This is priceless! "Some other aspects are available for download at..." and then URL! This is oracle marketing lingo if I ever heard some! Computer people download products or programs, only marketing guys download aspects.

>
> Some people believe they should have access to the full beta. Having
> seen some of Oracle's requirements and thought processes in the past, I
> believe Oracle does not want people to simply play with the package as
> is typical in the point 'n click software industry these days. Oracle
> provides beta software to organizations that will commit to resources,
> evaluation and formal feedback.

Now, that is a load of ... stuff. Testing is a serious business and if one wants to do it properly, then some things like methodology, objective of tests and environment in which tests are conducted, deadlines, documentation and deliverables have to be defined before testing. You see, I don't believe that companies like GM, GE, Wal-Mart, Ford or Boeing would go into such agreement only to receive 4 CD set from Oracle. They have business to run, namely business that makes them into brand names (and not products) that they are. I also happen to know some consultants who have been given the software without any expectations of serious testing. Beta test can be properly conducted only by wide audience, the more the merrier, not by "seriously committed organizations". Which business group would commit serious resources to test a beta piece of software for another company? It's very hard to see compelling business case that would motivate a car manufacturer like Ford to dedicate an engineer man-month to software testing for oracle. The same applies to other industries. If you want a serious beta testing, you need broad audience. If you don't... well, that would explain deteriorating software quality and some stupid decisions (8i patchsets that couldn't be backed out). That gives me even more reasons to delay the implementation of 10g.

> Anyone who is willing contractually to
> make that committment can contact Oracle and ask to sign up (no
> guarantees to getting on though - didn't help me either!).

No, you have to be on very friendly terms with someone from worldwide support or oracle consulting. Then you get the software. That, precisely, is what I'm taking about.

>
> Feel free to think anything you want. The next generation of Oracle
> server products will likely be designed to support active load
> distribution in a manner currently designated as 'grid computing'. This
> means Oracle will probably have learned lessons from deployment of RAC,
> corrected limitations and moved forward. Over the past 20 years of
> working with Oracle products, I've found the general reason for name
> changes it to help idiots^H^H^H^H^H^Hpeople understand that there are
> enough changes in the new version that "you ain't in Kansas anymore".

I've never been in Kansas and I'm not a Munchkin, either. You cannot just feed me such ... stuff and expect me to buy it. You'll have to come up with something better.

>
> Generally ... Nice troll! You need to feed it a bit better though.

Hans, I thought of giving you the response you deserve, but I don't want to waste my time on low level idiots from oracle marketing "who control the product". Remember DEC. I've seen a lot of articles just like yours posted by DEC marketing bozos posing as "impartial observers". Well, they learned that reality bites. So will you. If you continue to "control the product", I just might switch to DB2 or Postgres. They're gaining ground. I wonder why is that? Instead of trying to appease me, you are trying to discredit me? It will not be easy. I worked with every release of Oracle since 4.1.4 and I've been a DBA for a very long time. Instead of trying to appease me, you are trying to discredit me??? Speaking of the lack of intelligence in oracle marketing, you are a fine example. For goodness sake, I'm your user, you idiot!

-- 
None of us is as dumb as all of us.
(http://www.despair.com/meetings.html)