Re: Outsourcing developer to India and China - As an Oracle developer I am miffed

"nullpointer" <null_pointer_at_rediffmail.com> wrote in message news:c0728f9d.0310061002.563f3122_at_posting.google.com...
> "Noons" <wizofoz2k_at_yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:<3f801171$0$12000$afc38c87_at_news.optusnet.com.au>...
> > "John Rutherford" <jr1.rutherford_at_virgin.net> wrote in message
news:HuBfb.639$b73.955324_at_newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net...
> >
> >
> > > Are we having our life opportunities terminated
> > > and rolled out at a cheaper cost in these countries.
> >
> > Yes.
> NO, you are going to have to provide better quality at the same cost.
> Accept it or perish. Please understand its nothing personal just
> business. Hey if u think we are taking away ur jobs why dont u try and
> take away ours. But do it by proving to be a better worker not by
> cribbing
>
> >
> > > I thought Globalisation was supposed to bring competition
> >
> >
> > Yes. Unfortunately, outsourcing has NOTHING to do with
> > competition. It can't, when you and just about everyone else
> > in a Western country is forbidden by the Indian and Chinese
> > governments from competing in their markets. Ever tried
> > to quote for an IT project in India? You won't even get
> > past their e-mail filters! About time this "competition"
> > crap is exposed...
>
> Disagree strongly. Can u give me a concrete example of that happening.
> Microsoft, IBM, Oracle the list goes on..... we use there products
> they dont complain about not having access to the indian market. What
> u may be missing out it the fact that the prices u quoted to the
> Indian company were no match for what they could get it dont for.
> It has everything to do with competition.
>
> > > - Instead our IT manager are giving away our livlyhoods for nothing.
> > > So what if cheaper - Is it ethical?????
> >
> > Business has never been about ethics.
>
> agree ... its about profits nothing wrong in that.
>
> >
> > > 2 things we can do
> > > Boycott organisations who outsource
> >
> > That's a good start. It works. But takes a while.
>
> Tell me dont u own a pair of Nike sneakers or T shirt ? dont u have a
> pair of Levis ? hey guess what I do to.. and for ur information the
> material for the Levis is made right here in india, the shoes are
> produced in SE asian countries .. start boycotting and u might end up
> living like a hermit. Don't forget to throw out those malasian memory
> chips from your machine.
>
> >
> > > Be ethical as a customer and use vendors who do not outsource
> > > ie Pick who you bank with and by food from carefully- you get the idea
> >
> > Yes. It also works.
> >
> > Here is another idea:
> >
> > - Compete with them. It's false to pretend that a developer
> > in India costs a company in the USA $20/day. That's what the
> > worker gets there, but that is NOT what the company in the US
> > is being charged. There is a loado of parasites in the middle,
> > the "pimps", who are charging a lot more and making a fat living.
> > Eat into their income and you'll see the outsourcing fad vanish like
> > smoke.
> >
>
> We welcome competition. We thrive on it. Indians have not made it just
> on price. Our deliveries and quality is now acknowledged the world
> over.
>
>
> > Compete with the pimp. The prices they charge are quite feasible
> > for someone living in Western countires to match if they are allowed
> > to use the same media: remote links, ssh. Propose along the same lines.
> > You can find out how much they charge at the end of the line from their
> > web sites. I've seen prices that I can match here in Australia.
> > If I am allowed to use the same media. My biggest business cost is by
> > far transportation and its associated costs: restaurant food, extras,
etc.
> > I can trim those down to 0 if I can use the same delivery methods as the
> > pimps.
> >
> >
> > If you don't look after your market, don't expect anyone to do it for
you...
>
>
> and dont forget to upgrade while u are at it.
>
> these outsourcing rants make me sick. what happened to healthy
> competition.
>
> Stop sending emails save the postmans job !!!!!!!!
>
>
> Regds
> Dev

Dev,
I believe Noons is correct. It is very common for countries and industries to "protect" themselves from competition. India is no exception. I just think you are naive enough to not be aware of the protectionism. I have seen in the US head hunting firms blatantly advertise that they only wanted Indian workers (for US jobs) because they will work for less. In the US advertising for a position that is based upon country of origin which is NOT relevant to the job, is against US law. It is perfectly legal to advertise for an IT position where the duties are such and such and the salary range is x to y. (and x to y can be below the going average) Furthermore, it is perfectly legal (in the US) if only Indians apply for that job and they hire someone who's country of origin is India. It is not legal to discriminate and only hire Indians, if the duties are not relevant to country of origin. (eg writing computer code, system analysis, dba duties for a dba) I don't have a problem with hiring Indians; I do have a problem hiring people of a country of origin because the country of origin is a specific country of origin and that fact is NOT relevant to the duties of the job. That is discrimination pure and simple. (which has nothing to do with outsourcing)

My point is that there are a lot of discriminatory practices by Indian and non-India people. (I know people can be found in the US of European decent that pull the same crap.) It is very naive to think India doesn't have trade and protectionist barriers against other countries. People have a right to bitch about them.

Jim Received on Mon Oct 06 2003 - 20:03:23 CDT