Re: Outsourcing developer to India and China - As an Oracle developer I am miffed

"Lakeuk" <nospam_at_ic24.netx> wrote in message news:vo0iv2a2uevlbe_at_corp.supernews.com...
> The picture is very much bigger than people think, there are lots of
India's
> coming into the UK on work visa's to do jobs where there are perfectly
> capable people already available in this country to do these jobs. This
> shouldn't be happening as there are laws in place that should stop this
> happening but are being bent by the big companies, nothing can be done
until
> there is a change in the law.
>
> The law as it currently stands basically is that workers can only come in
> from outside the EU to do jobs if it can be demonstrated that no one is
> available from within the EU. In most cases people are available in the
UK
> and if not could be sourced in the EU, but to get round it a job is
> advertised in this country on a salary so low that no one will apply for
the
> job, this evidence is then used to obtain a work visa and ship the india
> workers into the UK. It's of benefit for the rules to be bent in this way
> as these workers only need to be paid 10% - 15% of the british wage, work
> 20% more hours, are put up in cheap digs and given allowance for food
(this
> works out at £1.50 per hour). This is a good deal for the india worker as
> there wage is more than an India doctor would get so they can live the
high
> life back in their home country.
>
> Now you would think why haven't more UK companies been named and shamed in
> being ousted out as using cheap labour in this country, well basically
they
> wipe all responsibility for it. If a paper goes to them saying why are
you
> using India labour the reply that comes back is don't look at us, speak to
> the outsourcing constancy that we use, we don't control where the labour
> comes from.
>
> We are all paying for this as no tax or National Insurance is paid by
these
> non-EU workers but they are entitled to use our public services while
here.
> In affect we are paying twice, once to cover their non payment and again
> when they use the services. It's not good for our country that the law is
> being bent.
>
> On balance they are excellent workers but more are needed to do the same
> amount of work, as business knowledge is not obtained because they don't
> have to time to learn the business, hence projects do take longer to
> complete. You can see why companies want to use there cheap skills, but
it
> doesn't make it right to manipulate the law to avoid using more expensive
> labour in this country. This isn't capitalism as some posters have
stated,
> you could only call it capitalism if it was done by the book, but the
rules
> on work visas are being legally bent by these companies at the cost to all
> us tax payers. We should not stand for it on this basis. If they truly
can
> 't get the labour in this country then I've no problem with bring in
labour
> from outside the EU, like with doctors and nurses for example.
>
> I would love to boycott companies that bring in non-EU workers that do
jobs
> that already have workers available in this country but the fact is I
don't
> know who's doing it other than the company I work for and the few I've
read
> in the papers. Not alot is reported, but when you talk to some one you
> start to hear how bad it is, by adding the pieces together.
>
> There is an article in todays Sunday Times on this subject
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2095-841679,00.html
>
>

Sounds a lot like the US situation. The US is reducing the number of visas that are allowed for that to something like 65,000 from something like 250,000. This same type of thing happens in the US.

There are two sides of the coin. Some of these people are abused by companies. Some, and I can't tell you the percentage, are forced to work huge number of hours and harassed by telling them they better or else they will be sent back. I did work for one company that called all our visa holders into a meeting and told them that since the company needed to cut costs they were going to go back to India and work from there.(with a dramatic cut in pay) The head of the company would try to get them a green card at some future time. He needed their answer right away or they were out of a job. (In the US, someone on a work visa can not be unemployed for like 2 weeks or they must return to their country of origin.) With their backs to the wall they agreed to work in India. Of course, some went to look for jobs "on the sly" while these plans went forward. (I don't blame them, putting someone's back against the wall like that is unethical. To those individual's credit they did continue working hard, and did nothing to undermine the company. The head of the company found out some of them were looking for work and he fired them on the spot and bad mouthed them.)

I have nothing against people from other countries. However, I agree with Noons that the rules have to cut both ways or it should not be so open.

Jim Received on Sun Oct 05 2003 - 12:10:14 CDT