Re: someone noticed 90 percent indians posting on asktom.oracle.com

"quarkman" <quarkman_at_myrealbox.com> wrote in message news:oprtr3s8ukzkogxn_at_haydn...

> Depends what you mean by 'starting IT', doesn't it? I mean, if the Uni's
> churn out yet more tired old DBAs or MCSEs or their equivalents, then those
> 20 year olds are going to be in deep doo-doo.

You got that wrong: the unis have *never* churned out DBAs or MCSEs. Ever. It's always been a function of the industry. The darn jobs keep changing so much there is no way a uni can get together a suitable syllabus for any of those. Not with the current industry definition of those jobs.

>
> But how about some research on quantum computing? Or on intelligently
> applying common tools to uncommon problems? Yadda yadda...

Unis are not mainstream education for the masses. Not now and even less the way education is going.

> the whole point
> of comparative advantage is that you can find some somewhere... but you
> have to be prepared to look. And change. And change isn't ever comfortable.
> So people tend to run away from change, and seek refuge in protectionism
> or, as in this thread, racism.

No, I don't think it is racism. The poor Indians just get singled out because they are the ones currently undergoing all this crap. Give them another 15 years and they'll start asking for better conditions.

Then they'll lose it and it will be the turn of the Chinese or Africans or whatever. The problem is not the Indians, they are just the current vehicle. The problem is the marketing forces that cause this to happen.

As I said more than once: I couldn't care less if it is Indians or Innuits, they are NOT the problem. However, given that they are for all intents and purposes the current vehicle, their nation gets mentioned. That is not racism, that is reality.

As for protectionism, given that EVERY single so-called "advanced western" state heavily relies on it for just about everything except jobs, you have to mount a stronger argument than just claim it isn't good. I know it is not PC, but it's a fact: protectionism is just about as widespread as claims it doesn't exist. It must be good for something, given its widespread use.

>
> 'Sfunny, you know. But I think the 'invisible hand of the market' might
> have worked that one out already.
>

I dont' think so. The "market" nowadays is characterized by a single focus on "hit-and-run" strategies. Ie, get the max profit out of the darn thing before it crumbles or any long term consequences show up. Witness the major corporate disasters in Australia (and worldwide) in the last 5 years.

With the consequence that those of us who plan to be around for longer than just the next release will not be happy with the status quo. It's starting to reflect on voting patterns. It will only get more pronounced.

>
> Another funny thing about the market: it will tend to stop itself. Oh, it
> might need a nudge here and there: it has no social conscience after all.
> But there's a nasty tinge to this thread that needs nipping in the bud, if
> at all possible.

Of course. I'm not denying there will be racist people taking advantage of this for other purposes. Agreed: it needs to be nipped. But not by denying facts.

> When I think back to the 70s in the UK, and remember how every man and his
> dig was out on strike every other week, and in considerable measure because
> the unions were fighting lay-offs in such high tech industries as steel and
> coal, I can only laugh at this sort of stuff.

I've got my own theories on that. If you're interested we can take it offline, this is not the place. I sincerely doubt that hasn't seriously harmed the UK economy in the long run.

> IT was once seen as the
> threat to the comfortable existence of millions of ordinary people's
> comfortable lives, because computers could do it quicker, cheaper and
> faster.

So they went to tremendous lengths convincing people they had to "evolve" and re-educate themselves if they wanted to keep their livelyhoods. Which they did. With the result that now they are being asked to do exactly the same again:

> Now it's the IT industry itself that's moaning about others being
> able to do it quicker and cheaper. And maybe better -perish the thought.

the backlash won't be nice...

> But just as there aren't herds of wild welshmen still roaming the hills
> looking for a coal mine to go down (they got re-trained and looked
> elsewhere for work) so I doubt that we've too much to worry about, so long
> as we don't get complacent.

Amen.

--
Cheers
Nuno Souto
wizofoz2k_at_yahoo.com.au.nospam