Re: Interviewing process (was: Re: moron OEM and RBS)

DA Morgan <damorgan_at_exesolutions.com> wrote in message news:<3E0351E5.35FE6A34_at_exesolutions.com>...
> Joel Garry wrote:
>
> > DA Morgan <damorgan_at_exesolutions.com> wrote in message news:<3E021193.B03F7B4D_at_exesolutions.com>...
> > > Joel Garry wrote:
> > >
> > > > I used to think that (in the advocacy groups in the mid-90's I was
> > > > quite vocal and biased about it), but I was hoping the percentage had
> > > > increased. With optimism like that, I should probably sell real
> > > > estate :-)
> > > >
> > > > But more seriously, what I have seen over the last several years is
> > > > the cumulative results of both "microsoftization" and the related
> > > > problem of Oracle trying to emulate it. So one must be able to use
> > > > OEM with alacrity when walking into some random shop where there is a
> > > > high percentage of less experienced admins adhering to the party line.
> > > > They expect you to know it, and expect pretty pictures out of
> > > > Performance Manager and instant solutions to locking issues. So to
> > > > me, it seems necessary both to know OEM and to know its limitations.
> > > > Being able to make it screw itself with just a few commands is just
> > > > gravy for impressing the newbies.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Daniel Morgan
> > > > > http://www.outreach.washington.edu/extinfo/certprog/oad/oad_crs.asp
> > > >
> > > > jg
> > > > --
> > > > @home is bogus
> > > > My year-old 300M got rear-ended today. Was it the head of Ford
> > > > Premier Auto Group? Nooooo. Was it the owner of House of Mercedes?
> > > > Nooooo. Was it the manager of Newport Imports? Nooooo. It was the
> > > > CEO of Kia America. Figures.
> > >
> > > Part of the interviewing process is setting expectations. When I am interviewed I make it known that my
> > > requirement for accepting a position extends beyond just a paycheck. I insist on access to the entire data
> > > dictionary, I insist on the ability to use SQL*Plus rather than some GUI they've chosen ... usually TOAD
> > > not that I have anything against TOAD, and I insist on a change management process.
> >
> > Maybe some of us just don't have the cojones, but I know I'm not alone
> > in thinking there is a buyer's market right now, and potential
> > employers will use any excuse to slim down the list of many qualified
> > applicants, including what may be reasonable demands.
> >
> > But then again, maybe some of us who aren't perfectly coiffed
> > mannequins can be challenged by the, well, management-challenged
> > environments. One man's hellhole may be another's opportunity. Or it
> > may just be a hellhole. It is often difficult to tell from the
> > outside. Of all the jobs I've had, certainly the top three best
> > involved, more-or-less, someone saying "show up at this place and
> > start working." And so did the worst (although the second-worst
> > involved the traditional interviewing process, started off average and
> > went downhill).
> >
> > >
> > > If they can't handle that minimum requirement ... I don't want to work there. And I have on many
> > > occassions exercised that by either not accepting a position or walking out on one at the first
> >
> > That was a heck of lot easier when I was a hotshot programmer with 2-4
> > years of experience. One of those that met my demands, I didn't
> > accept anyways because of the commute. Read about it in the papers
> > later, $65 million fraud, inside job.
> >
> > > opportunity. A job that is more frustrating than rewarding is only of value if you have no other choice.
> >
> > That is the problem with a buyers slave-market.
> >
> > jg
> > --
> > @home is bogus.
> > "In search of excess." Book by Graef Crystal, compensation expert.
>
> It is not a question of body parts.

Yeah, I've seen some pretty anencephalic people... :-)

>
> You don't get offers if you look desparate. You don't get offers with good compensation packages if you appear
> willing to take anything. Asking questions and indicating that their offer is not necessarily your acquiesence
> demonstrates a level of self-confidence in your skills. You set yourself up for misery if you don't lay down,
> right up front, what you expect on your end of the relationship; any relationship.

That sounds good, but for some reason I get way more money when I don't say anything and let them assume I'm expensive (or better, let someone else negotiate and take a cut). On the whole, they seem to be happier when they pay me more, too.

At the least, there is some non-linearity here.

I think what I've done is take a weakness (foot-in-mouth disease in interviews, general idiosyncracy), and turn it into a strength. Avoid the normal interview same-ol' same-ol', blah-blah, fill-out-these-forms-don't-call-us-we'll-call-you. Go straight to work. Of course, that didn't work for me much of this year or 1988, but it's been ok most of the time.

I'd rather just have a job near my house and work there until I retire, but that seems unreachable.

jg

--
@home is bogus.
The new budget advisor for the governor of California is the same
fellow who made "Attack of the Killer Tomatoes."  Pass the ketchup.



> 

> Daniel Morgan