Re: Is Sr. DBAs afraid of not be able to pass cert exam ??

Thank you for your thoughtful and valuable input. Now can you explain to us why we are seeing gross errors of fact in the Oracle Press books that are for OCP training? My email to Jason Couchman has gone (as must confess I anticipated) unanswered.

And should we infer that it is just the book that is incorrect ... or that the book is an accurate reflection of the test and that the test too is incorrect?

On the subject of Oracle's education courses I have always found them valuable ... if viewed in the context of what they are. They are a great way to get started with a new product or new release of a product. They are not, in my estimation, intended to create competency.

Thank you.

Daniel Morgan

Pete Sharman wrote:

> I always find these discussions fascinating, particularly since my role in
> Oracle is half training our consultants on new releases of the database.
> One of the things I've always done in my time with Oracle (which is over 7
> years now) is to review the course material as it comes out, so I'd like to
> make some comments on Howard's viewpoint.
>
> Firstly, one of the major difficulties when developing courseware for
> something with as many different capabilities as the Oracle database has is
> determining what to include and what not to include in the courseware. If
> we covered everything you needed to know to be a competent DBA in the basic
> training (and by that I mean the DBA Fundamentals I and II courses and the
> Performance Tuning course), guess what? You'd probably be paying for 6
> months worth of training (OK, maybe I exaggerate, but you get the point).
> That's why the basic training was developed in the way it was - to give you
> the basic knowledge you need to be able to perform normal DBA tasks.
>
> As a result, some of the less frequently used functionality must be left out
> of that course. I'd include things like partitioning in that category. I'm
> not sure what the percentage is, but if you polled people in this newsgroup
> I think you would find less than 50% actually use it. However, it is still
> important to have training on this, and that's why we develop more advanced
> courseware. The more advanced courseware expects you to know the
> fundamentals, and then spend more time being trained on things like
> Partitioning, AQ, Advanced Replication and so on.
>
> Secondly, to get valuable training on more complex functionality requires
> dedicated courseware. Take, for example, RAC. One of the hardest parts of
> writing the 9i New Features for Administrators course was Chapter 12, Real
> Application Clusters. It's an incredibly important are of knowledge, and
> one that is far more widely accepted as useful to the general Oracle
> population than OPS ever was. However, we already have a full 5 days for
> that course. To cover it in more detail is just not possible, so we
> introduce it in the 9i NFDBA course so people are aware of how useful that
> technology is. There is a separate 5 day course on RAC due to be released
> soon, which takes you into the gory detail you need to know for how to
> implement and use it. I'd venture to say that's the major difference
> between the New Features course and any other one. The New Features course
> has so many areas to cover that it can only introduce the concepts to you,
> which you then need to investigate more (either yourself or on additional
> training).
>
> Finally let me say where I see OCP to be valuable, personally. I started
> life in Oracle as a DBA instructor after 4 years as a DBA before joining
> Oracle. I started the certification for one reason only - it got really
> embarassing as an instructor for someone to say "Are you a certified DBA?"
> and to have to answer no. Now that I'm no longer in Oracle Education, that
> is far less of a hassle, but I continue to keep up my certification. The
> reasons? One - it's cheaper to keep it up by doing the New Features exam
> each time than it would be to renew it afresh if I let it expire. Two -
> there are always areas in the exams that I don't know because I don't use
> them in my day to day job, so it's really useful to find out about this
> stuff so I can determine if it would be useful to employ when I do need it.
> Three - before I joined Oracle, I lost out on a promotion purely snd simply
> because the other guy had a piece of paper and I didn't. That's all they
> could separate us on, and it ended up costing me thousands of dollars over
> the next couple of years. :(
>
> --
> HTH. Additions and corrections welcome.
>
> Pete
> Author of "Oracle8i: Architecture and Administration Exam Cram"
>
> "Controlling developers is like herding cats."
> Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook
>
> "Oh no, it's not. It's much harder than that!"
> Bruce Pihlamae, long-term Oracle DBA
>
> "Howard J. Rogers" <dba_at_hjrdba.com> wrote in message
> news:3c583ff4$0$8455$afc38c87_at_news.optusnet.com.au...
> > I might agree with you, except that the DBA stream for the OCP doesn't
> > mention partitioning once (it's not even on the Performance Tuning course,
> > which is madness). It doesn't mention Advanced Replication at all (unless
> > you're upgrading to 9i OCP, in whcih case it mysteriously makes an
> > appearance). It doesn't deal with Advanced Queueing. It doesn't deal
> with
> > Parallel Server (again, 9i upgrade has 1 rather scanty chapter devoted to
> > RACs).
> >
> > I'm not saying that the DBA stream is not challenging or informative -look
> > at the number of posts we get here for 'why can't I back up my online redo
> > logs?', as a simple example. But forget all this nonsense about 'you will
> > learn *all* the features of the product'. You won't, simple as that.
> >
> > If all you have is an OCP, it tells me that you know the basics. Sort of.
> > And that's about it. The real nub of complex database administration is
> > entirely absent (which is frustrating enough as an instructor, let alone
> as
> > a would-be DBA who actually wants to learn his craft).
> >
> > Regards
> > HJR
> > --
> > ------------------------------------------
> > Oracle Resources: http://www.hjrdba.com
> > ============================
> >
> >
> > "Christian Svensson" <chse30_at_hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:ccc2a7eb.0201300648.f6fdd3_at_posting.google.com...
> > > > >
> > > > >Last I just want say if a future employer have to choose between two
> > > > >consultants with exact same years of experience and one of them have
> a
> > > > >DBA OCP, which one do you think they will think of most ?
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > That is IMHO a very good argument. And the ONLY one going for OCP
> > > > certification in its present format.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > The only one ? How about:
> > >
> > > - You will get paid more (if your employer agree to this of course)
> > > - You will learn more in the studying process, i.e you will be aware
> > > of "all" the features/options
> > > - You get a written proof of you knowledge (you should of course also
> > > have at least a year of practical experience)
> > >
> > > I also want to make it crystal clear that I dont belive in studying 1
> > > week about 12 hours a day and then take the exam and you are
> > > automatically an Oracle DBA. To be a DBA you need experience, end of
> > > discussion. But studying for the OCP is in my mind one way to get a
> > > better DBA or to get a better understanding of Oracle.
> > >
> > > Regards.
> > >
> > > /Christian
> >
> >
Received on Thu Jan 31 2002 - 05:30:41 CST