Re: Oracle versus MS Sql Server

Hi Jason,

that's been a long post, full of engagement. Thank you for your opinion.

> I really didn't want to contribute to the madness here

This is no madness. These are remarks by a real world customer. Oracle can regard these kinds of remarks. Or Oracle can ignore them. It is up to them.

> First off, I have to say that in the time it has taken you to so carefully
> and thoroughly respond to every single one of these postings you could
have
> learned a good deal of what you need to know about Oracle.

I am self employed, so I am my boss and I am able to decide what to do. If I think that "trying to convince others" is a good job, I will do it.

> It was your comment about GUIs that forced me to respond. It is precisely
> this type of thinking that epitomizes what is wrong with user expectations
> today.

User expectations can never be wrong. If a user expects something, and it is theoretically possible, the software developer should try to realize it. Of course it is a measurement between functionality and money, but my expectations about the Oracle software aren't futuristic. I do not want to have an interface which can interpret my spoken words, or even read my mind. We are speaking of a graphical user interface. Something which is normal for many years.

> I'm sure you're going to
> respond that this is not what you suggested, only that the GUI should
always
> be an option.

NO! The command line should be an option.

> Does your computer have a
> keyboard? I think you should try unplugging it and use your mouse to
> select each letter of the alphabet from a beautiful virtual keyboard on
your
> screen as you compose your response to this post

This is complete nonsense.

As I read through your remarks (not just the above statements), many similarities to other opinions can be found. There once was a time, when mainframers thought that there would be no world except theirs. And there also where opinions, that a command line interface (like DOS 6) could never be replaced by a GUI (Windows 3). One thing I learned from past discussions is, that it is nealry impossible to convince such people. The best thing to do is sit down and wait until their time is over.

> You are perpetuating the idea that any
> idiot can use a GUI to build a database...

I do not request the impossible. I just want that the features, which a program is supposed to do, actually work. If there were no setup at all (just 100 pages of written documentation), if there were no Enterprise Manger at all (just a command line), if I were told "no, we don't think a setup and a GUI are important", much of what I said were completely irrelevant. But there is a SETUP, and there is a GUI, so I have to stand up, if they are not working correctly.

> Now whom should you be pissed at? Oracle?
> NO! The people who are forcing you to use it. My company chooses tools
all
> the time as our "corporate standard".

> ... much snipped ...

What you are completely wrong at, is the opinion that I am looking for some "Microsoft vs. Oracle" debate. Yes, I am a Windows-only developer. Yes, I do earn much of my money with Microsoft products. But I am definitley not against some company, just because it has a product that is in the same market as MS SQL Server.

My only motive for discussing here is trying to point on some areas, where Oracle might improve and might even learn from Microsoft. It is rather disappointing that if you come to a Oracle newgroup, and you dare to say something positive about Microsoft's products and something negative about Oracle's products, many people come up and slam you with their hammer. That is the wrong attitude. And this attitude will fail in the long run.

> The idea that you should just be able to double click
> and get a working, reasonably efficient, well tuned enterprise database
> without having to understand anything about how the product actually works
> is not only a gross underestimation of the project-specific considerations
> involved in creating such a database ...

I told it already, but probably you did not read it - or my English was too bad. So here it is again:

• I wanted to install an Oracle database for my development needs.
• I would never install an Oracle database on a production system, this has to be done by DBAs.
• Yes, I do expect the database as well as all tools to run, if setup has been completed. There should be no need to manually configure any INI-style files. Any DBA would probably be ably to make this database run smoother. But it has to run.

> How can Oracle make it's interface dummy-proof without removing
> much of our ability to adapt it to our own needs?

You probably are no Windows-user. But maybe you understand this anyway:

Many many years ago installing a PC was a very difficult task. You had to plug adapter cards into the slots, and be carefull about IRQs and memory ranges. Then, many hardware professionals had an opinion that is similar to yours "this can never be automated, this will always need hand-tuning". So where are we today? How many PCs are installed successfully by people, who do not even know what an IRQ is?

I do know that I cannot convice you. But you probably also know, that you won't be able to convince me.

Anyway, have a nice day.

Michael G. Schneider Received on Wed Oct 24 2001 - 02:19:52 CDT