Re: Tablespace export ???? how ???

On Mon, 26 Mar 2001 21:54:38 +1000, "Howard J. Rogers" <howardjr_at_www.com> wrote:

>Well, far be it for me to intervene between two posters I respect
>enormously, but my take on all this is: any time you are invited to mess
>around with scripts supplied by Oracle, leave well alone.

Fair enough. I don't have a prob with that. My only problem was with what I perceived as a personal attack and some incorrect statements, IMHO unjustified, from Niall. My anticipated apologies if that was not the case and my interpretation was wrong.

>
>To do so requires a level of knowledge that is not apparent in the big wide
>world out there.

And it's indeed a pity. Allow me a <soapbox>:

ORACLE is not exactly a "new" product. It's about time this kind of subject was available for open discussion without pre-conceived attitudes. It's the norm in databases such as DB2 and other mainframe environments. In these, internals are openly discussed at user group meetings, newsgroups, web sites, you name it.

Note: Openly discussed, not just for the "choosen few" or "select" mailing lists.

Why the heck can't we do the same in the ORACLE arena, open and without prejudice? To protect the cushy jobs of half a dozen self-appointed "gurus"? And *NO!*, I'm not talking about Steve, Jonathan and others I've known over the years and respect profoundly! They are way above this and work at a totally different level.

I'm fed up of walking into sites where I'm told the prior DBA was a "guru" recommended by so-and-so of some software house in bed with OPS. After digging under the carpets, I find undocumented procedures all over the place, totally disorganized directories, scripts all over the joint, no security whatsoever, not a single line of anything written anywhere about what the site is supposed to be doing, etc,etc. When I start asking questions, I find obscurantism reigns. But heck, these people were "recommended by such-and-such"! So they must be right and can't be questioned. Rubbish! Total feudal obscurantism.

IMO, this is a direct result of the attitude "no one discusses anything that is not kosher to discuss" and others of the ilk. Not on. Not if being a DBA in ORACLE is supposed to become mainstream instead of "certifiable for version x.y.z" and other MS rubbish like that. There is no way ORACLE will survive in the long run competing with the likes of IBM and their DB2 if this sort of attitude is allowed to continue. And believe me compete they (we) will, like it or not!

</soapbox>

>To do so also invites Oracle to say, "What? What did you
>do? See you later sonny" -and regardless of the rights and wrongs, some
>support wunderkind is bound to use this sort of technique as a beaut way out
>of dealing with the actual issues.

Absolutely. And if a sufficiently large body of people with above average knowledge of ORACLE is not allowed to openly discuss these and other matters, ORACLE support (and others!) will continue to do this ad infinitum. Shooting themselves in the foot in the process, but I won't go there now.

Maybe a separate discussion group, open to anyone who wants to participate? I dunno, but I don't like what I see here everytime the advice is beyond the "how do I install ORIKLE" stuff. I'm always willing to help where I can, when I can and within the limits of my free time, in the spirit of Usenet. And I'll continue to do so, but I'd welcome other avenues if anybody has them in place.

As a side note:
I'm not at all surprised when you, I, Sy, Neill and a few other active helpers here from time to time "explode". Darn it!, there is only so much a few can take, month after month, year after year. It's about time others have a go and get themselves involved instead of sucking away as lurkers. I know they're out there, I get their private e-mails. Get in and participate, damn it! No one is gonna take your job away or fire you because of that. Learn by talking and discussing your ideas, not by being bottom-feeders and followers or ocasional submarine commentators. Put the ideas forward, let's hash/hack them, let's evolve. Enough "installs"!

>Next,you'll be telling me that Windows can be made to work as efficently as
>Linux, if only you have access to a hex editor, and the Guru from Hell. It
>may work... but I wouldn't want to play Solitaire on it.

Nah! Just remove all the MS stuff and run just ORACLE in it. BTW, you'll have to remove Solitaire... :-D

Cheers
Nuno Souto
nsouto_at_bigpond.net.au.nospam
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/the_Den/index.html Received on Mon Mar 26 2001 - 07:05:59 CST