Re: Is Oracle deliberately difficult?

From: hello <hello_at_yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 14:49:18 -0700
Message-ID: <39B0245E.8E5368AF@yahoo.com>

Agree with you 100% oratune.
Typically the people who complain about Oracle and it's complexities, are those coming from other db platforms where the norm is the GUI (sql server).

Being an Oracle DBA who started in the beginning of my career with SQL Server, I can say that I sure prefer Oracle, and I won't even touch Enterprise Manager...
I want to know what the heck is going on, and I want to know how to fix things without just clicking a button.
I've been with Oracle a few years now, and no more GUI for me!

oratune_at_aol.com wrote:

> In article <v3kpqsguhiatipi1lcddrpv6r8ll0ob6e8_at_4ax.com>,
> Sybrand Bakker <postbus_at_sybrandb.demon.nl> wrote:
> > On Wed, 30 Aug 2000 08:41:23 GMT,
> > s.nospam.marelli_at_somewhere.not.intrasoft.lu (Serge *Anonymous Coward*
> > Marelli) wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >Da Big Book quoteth on Tue, 29 Aug 2000 20:53:58 +0200, famous Monk
> > >Bent Mathiesen <bm_at_tli.de> preached:
> > >
> > >[snip]
> > >
> > >> I've used Oracle for a number of years, on different platforms,
> > >> withdifferent application. In a way I find Oracle simpel yet
> > >> complex. When I started to use Oracle, I had the usual
> > >> questions - but after a while all the ordinary stuff in the
> > >> engine became routine as well as the network communication,
> > >> the packages the logical database and 24x7 uptime.
> > >>
> > >> However, I think Oracle have beome to "errophrone" during
> > >> the lastest years - and therefore harder to administrate.
> > >> Like, what help is an enterprise manager, when it cannot
> > >> report correctly, if your database is in archive mode or not.
> > >> And that is only *one* example - I have plenty of these.
> > >
> > >I've only recently (since february) gotten into the actual hard-DBA
> > >part of Oracle (before I was probably one of the 'dolts' mentionned
in
> > >another post) and I have a few comments to this thread.
> > >My background is that of a pure developer. I have not found the
> > >oracle concepts to be that outlandish, but then I didn't have too
many
> > >previous paradigms to shift :)
> > >However I have been largely disappointed by the quality (or lack
> > >thereof) of the Oracle GIU Admin tools (i.e. enterprise manager
> > >tools). I use Oracle 8 on NT and Oracle 7 on Unix.
> > >I manage to crash the storage manager and the instance manager on NT
> > >on a quasi-regular basis (i.e. almost every second time I use them)
> > >with some GPF or other and I find this hard to accept for the kind of
> > >product it is (supposed to be).
> > >I don't have the level of proficiency necessary yet to do without
> > >these tools and go for hard SQL and other CLI tools, but it feels
like
> > >_these_ are safe and sure and our local DBA uses only these. Plus
> > >they are the same on Unix and NT.
> > >
> > >my 3 LUF (not EUR yet)
> > >
> > >Serge
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >-----------------------------------------------------------------------

> > > The opinions expressed are mine and none other's
> >
> >-----------------------------------------------------------------------

> > >Serge Marelli
> > >s.marelli_at_somewhere.not-intrasoft.lu
> >
> > Sure they are safe and the same on Unix and NT.
> > Also, you can do 80 percent by using scripts anyway, so you would need
> > to type commands for the remaining 20 percent. Sometimes, being in
> > this business from 1986, younger people are unnecessarily spoiled with
> > gimmicks that don't necessarily are better than doing it the hard way.
> > People using a GUI for more than one year still wouldn't have not
> > learned what it is all about.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Sybrand Bakker, Oracle DBA
> >
> >

> I concur with Sybrand on this one; many "DBA's" who swear by the GUI
> toolset and will only work when the GUI is present are often times sworn
> at by more experienced DBA's. I have found that the newer crop of GUI
> DBA's many times don't know and don't understand the workings of the
> database. Since the GUI tools do all of the work for them ("Just point
> and click and your database is fixed") if, God forbid, the instance that
> Enterprise Manager is running on dies these DBA's won't know how to fix
> the problem because Enterprise Manager isn't there to do it for them.

> I won't speak for all DBA's who use the GUI tools because they can be a
> timesaver when used by someone who is familiar with the workings of an
> Oracle database and can do the tasks at hand by hand but simply chooses
> not to. My gripe is with those "DBA's" who started with the GUI, didn't
> learn any more than which button to click on the screen, and then
> complain that Oracle is difficult to work with. Once the concepts
> behind the Oracle architecture and implementation are understood Oracle
> ceases to be difficult; it becomes a powerful and elegant RDBMS.

> --
> David Fitzjarrell
> Oracle Certified DBA

> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
Received on Fri Sep 01 2000 - 16:49:18 CDT