Re: SQL possible equivalent

From: DA Morgan <damorgan_at_psoug.org>
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 17:43:31 -0700
Message-ID: <1180658609.980259@bubbleator.drizzle.com>

joel garry wrote:
> On May 31, 10:30 am, DA Morgan <damor..._at_psoug.org> wrote:

>> Jim Smith wrote:
>>> In message <1180572663.829..._at_bubbleator.drizzle.com>, DA Morgan
>>> <damor..._at_psoug.org> writes
>>>> euan.gar..._at_gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On May 30, 8:10 am, DA Morgan <damor..._at_psoug.org> wrote:
>>>>>> Jeff Kish wrote:
>>>>>>> I have a script for mssql serverthat checks to see if a table
>>>>>>> exists... if
>>>>>>> it does it drops it and recreates it.
>>>>>>> I'm wondering how to do this using only sql if possible. I can
>>>>>>> figure it out
>>>>>>> using pl/sql but I'm not sure of the correct approach (or even if
>>>>>>> it is
>>>>>>> possible) using just sql.
>>>>>>> I realize you can select from user_tab_cols like this:
>>>>>>> select table_name from user_tab_columns where upper(table_name) =
>>>>>>> 'ASSET'
>>>>>>> but how do I fit this into a sort of ifdef else sort of flow
>>>>>>> control in sql?
>>>>>>> Can someone point me in the right direction? Do I need to somehow
>>>>>>> insert
>>>>>>> pl/sql into the sql?
>>>>>>> thanks
>>>>>>> Jeff Kish
>>>>>> The issue isn't how ... the issue is why. Oracle is NOT a Microsoft
>>>>>> product rebranded. The concepts are different, the architecture is
>>>>>> different, and kludges such as the one you are asking about used
>>>>>> inSQL Serveronly because of its Ingres origins are possible but never
>>>>>> done by people who learn the product.
>>>>>> So the answer is you can do it using Native Dynamic SQL but you should
>>>>>> instead learn Oracle unless you wish to write really really bad code.
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Daniel A. Morgan
>>>>>> University of Washington
>>>>>> damor..._at_x.washington.edu
>>>>>> (replace x with u to respond)
>>>>>> Puget Sound Oracle Users Groupwww.psoug.org-Hide quoted text -
>>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>>>  Ingres? Thats a new one, I suggest a little fact checking;
>>>>>  http://blogs.msdn.com/euanga/archive/2006/01/19/514479.aspx
>>>> I agree as I am correct.
>>>> Allow me to quote from:
>>>> http://www.referenceforbusiness.com/history2/49/Sybase-Inc.html
>>>> Sybase was founded in 1984 by Mark Hoffman and Robert Epstein. Hoffman
>>>> had previously worked as an executive at a company called Britton Lee,
>>>> which pioneered the field of database computing. He joined Epstein,
>>>> who had helped to create an early relational program called Ingres
>>>> while working toward his Ph.D. at the University of California at
>>>> Berkeley. Together, the two set out to market a cutting-edge
>>>> relational database management system (RDBMS), which would organize
>>>> information and make it available to many computers in a network.
>>>> The origin of Sybase, with respect to concepts and architecture, is
>>>> Ingres and thus it too is the underlying foundation of SQL Server.
>>> Just because there are links between companies doesn't mean the products
>>> are related.
>>> Having used all the products in question there are almost no
>>> similarities between them.
>> One of the joys that comes from teaching is that one must learn about
>> such things of academic interest.
>>
>> Examine the concepts of Ingres, Informix, Sybase, and SQL Server (prior
>> to 2005).
>>
>> Examine the way they use terminology.
>> Examine the way they use log files.
>> Examine their locking.
>> Examine their transaction mechanisms.
>> Examine their security models.
>>
>> If you find a significant difference I would very much like to hear
>> about it.
>> --
>> Daniel A. Morgan
>> University of Washington
>> damor..._at_x.washington.edu
>> (replace x with u to respond)
>> Puget Sound Oracle Users Groupwww.psoug.org

>
> In the early/mid 90's I worked for a vendor that did the 4GL/db
> independent thing, they started from the Rdb and RMS world, and had to
> be quite explicit about all these issues. I'm with Daniel here.
> Oracle was the odd man out, Rdb was technically better than all the
> others IMO. Previous to that I had worked on several db's and the
> differences involved, by 1990 I was convinced that Oracle was going to
> blow them all away, not necessarily because of technical superiority.
> Bet my career on it. As it happened, Oracle eventually bought Rdb at
> the fire-sale.
>
> And even though that vendor put in plenty of switches and code for
> Oracle's way, the apps written for it still wound up with lowest-
> common-denominator locking and transaction mechanisms. In the end,
> their Oracle customers grew and left, and now their SQL-Server
> customers are growing. The Ingres version went away. Sybase too.
> But I'm still working on it with Oracle, because Oracle still scales
> better, even with reinvented locking and transaction models and MS
> biased IT departments. A working app is still better than the
> alternative.
>
> jg
> --
> @home.com is bogus.
> "How ya doin'?"
> "Verticle and Ventilating."

Microsoft is investing substantially in copying Oracle's MVCC. While you may not read it in their public relations statements they understand more clearly than their customers that until they get rid of locking and lock escalation, until they can duplicate RAC, until they can figure a way around Oracle's many solid patents, they truly can not compete.

SQL Server 2005 was their first step toward ditching the Ingres roots.

-- 
Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington
damorgan_at_x.washington.edu
(replace x with u to respond)
Puget Sound Oracle Users Group
www.psoug.org

Received on Thu May 31 2007 - 19:43:31 CDT