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Re: How to force two entities to point to the same lookup value

From: <>
Date: 18 Aug 2006 08:14:24 -0700
Message-ID: <>

Bob Badour wrote:

> >>>>>>>>It goes without saying that Tom Kyte says everyone should lock
> >>>>>>>>themselves permanently into Oracle solutions. Oracle pays him to say
> >>>>>>>>that,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>I sincerely doubt that I would. I am sure he is a very pleasant man.
> >>>>>>Regardless of his natural inclination, which I am sure is equally
> >>>>>>pleasant, Oracle pays him to be pleasant as well.
> >>>>>>

> >>>>>[someone else said]
> >>>>>The thing about Tom is, he goes through the technicalities
> >>>>>point-by-point.

> >>>>[bob said]
> >>>>Does he? What are the points he uses to demonstrate that folks should
> >>>>give his employer a monopolistic franchise over their business?
> >>>

> >>
> >>What a kooky thing to say! I mention the incentives an Oracle VP has for
> >>getting people to give his company a monopolistic franchise over their
> >>business, and you morph it into a technical discussion?
> >

> Are you suggesting there is anything illegal or morally wrong with
> puffery? Are you suggesting that an appeal to authority is somehow
> strong or stronger when one appeals to the authority of a shill? >

You need to read up on that subject Bob.

If you had ever bothered to read my books or whatever, you would understand that what I say is "hey, you paid a lot for your software - be it sqlserver, db2, informix, or even oracle. It is foolish not to use the tools you pay for". (i actually wrote words exactly to that effect, yes, an Oracle employee wrote "use the heck out of the software you buy, regardless of whom you bought it from")

Do I teach people how to maximize their investment in the product called Oracle - absolutely, that is part of my job (some might even say my "hobby"). Sqlserver technical folks do it for sqlserver, IBM folks for DB2 and Informix. Some people actually desire this, find this desirable (maximizing their return on investment, making the most of the products they purchase).

Do I also work in the software/IT industry in general? Absolutely. Implementing software solutions is part of my job.

If you have to say things like "it goes without saying", you have a weak argument. You are stating something as fact without any supporting information whatsoever. I've seen some of your other arguments regarding database design and they in general are strong - you should know better.

When something "goes without saying" - it really doesn't. You had to say it - it couldn't go without saying (sort of like saying "it is obvious that...", if it were obvious, you wouldn't need to state it)

I agree that "appeal to authority" does not a case make, but you stand on the same ground with the ad hominem "shill" and "it goes without saying".

I presume you are a software developer of some sort - or at least involved in the industry. When someone uses a tool/application/whatever designed and developed by you or your company do you:

  1. show them how to best take advantage of the features so as to make it perform, scale, function well?
  2. tell them not to use 90% of the functionality since they won't be able to switch to another tool/application? (do no evil right).
  3. - that is what I do with Oracle. I show people how to maximize the product they just purchased. I make the more general point as well that you *paid for this stuff, regardless of who you paid it to*, use it, don't let it just sit there, use it. You seem to think that evil, so be it. I see it as a way to make people more productive. As a way to field applications that have a chance of scaling beyond single user mode. As a way to achieve stated goals of performance. As a way to have an opportunity to be maintainable by mere mortals.

I have a feeling you'll never be convinced that I'm not a 'shill', I don't really care one way or the other. Just felt the need to point out the logical fallacy in your argument here. You've done it well yourself in the past.

(and trust me, they don't pay me to be nice. If you like, there are some examples on asktom where I've been accused of actually "not being nice". I may not be as "blunt" as you are sometimes - but I'm like that in real life too, not just online).

Thomas Kyte
Resistance is Futile (that of course is an attempt at humor, a bit of which this thread is in dire need of)... Received on Fri Aug 18 2006 - 10:14:24 CDT

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