Re: "We don't do triggers"

From: Frank <fbortel_at_nescape.net>
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 15:35:23 +0100
Message-ID: <bqaabc$jjg$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>

Daniel Morgan wrote:

> Frank wrote:
>

>> Daniel Morgan wrote:
>>
>>> Frank wrote:
>>>
>>>> Volker Hetzer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Frank" <fbortel_at_nescape.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag 
>>>>> news:bq34ho$qr$1_at_news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...
>>>>>
>>>>>> What if you have customers that wish your product to run
>>>>>> on a variaty of backends?
>>>>>> Makes sense to put (1 version!) of the business rules in
>>>>>> the middle tier to me. Use the database just as a pool of data;
>>>>>> no logic
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What if they wish to use a variety of middle tiers?
>>>>>
>>>>> Greetings!
>>>>> Volker
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I tell 'm I don't do that ;-)
>>>> Seriously - the customer can have any middle tier as long as
>>>> it's black - sorry, Java.
>>>>
>>>> The background of all this is simply a matter of
>>>> development cost - it's cheaper (at least, thought to
>>>> be!) to develop the logic in one flavour (Java), than in,
>>>> say two or three (Oracle: PL/SQL, SQL Server: TSQL, DB2/MySQL/...)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Surely you can'be believe forcing one middle-tier solution is cheaper 
>>> than forcing one back-end solution. All you've done is shift the 
>>> restraint.
>>>
>>> Put all logic in the database and you can connect from any middle 
>>> tier and any front-end.
>>>
>>> Put the logic in the middle tier and you can't connect from any 
>>> front-end that doesn't go through that specific middle tier or the 
>>> entire solution dies painfully.
>>>
>>> To you that is better?
>>
>>
>> Daniel,
>>
>> given the fact that:
>> - this is a web based solution
>> - SQL Server as well as Oracle backends *need* to be served
>>
>> Would you allow two development teams, or three?
>>
>> And how many middle tiers -other than supporting Java- can you
>> think of?

>
>
> Many. Just for starters I could write the entire thing in Oracle Forms
> and go against both databases. And I could add a laundry list of others
> too.
>
> You are, it seems, still making great efforts to miss the point. Put all
> you business logic into the middle-tier. Then someone connects to the
> back-end database with MS Access. You have zero control. You haven't a
> shred of data integrity. That person can do anything they wish and you
> have nothing. Well you have the appearance of business rules but nothing
> of substance. They have by-passed all of your control over data integrity.
>
> Surely you aren't going to tell me that you have some way to keep
> someone from connecting to SQL Server with another tool or Oracle with
> SQL*Plus.
>

Sure - pre-logon triggers ;-)

Forms on the Web runs via java applets - still java. Forms uses/requires 9IAS, which supports java.

I'm not responsible for the end users, or an organization allowing end users to connect uncontrolled directly to databases with toys like Access, or -even worse- Excel. I do however see some validity in the financial aspect of developing such applications; two developer teams will be cheaper than three.

Just playing the devil's advocate here, as I'm in the middle of exactly this discussion.
I don't like the idea either, so I'm desperately seeking counter arguments by trying to figure out what argument might be presented to me.

However, the financial aspect still is open...

-- 
Regards, Frank van Bortel

Received on Sat Nov 29 2003 - 08:35:23 CST