Re: Getting into the data modeling field

i hope you didnt spend alot of money on those expensive private sector classes. They are scams and are out to steal people's money... if you took a few college classes, good for you. get a CS degree. If you have an undergrad degree get a masters in CS or Software Engineering. You need it to get started.

There are virtually NO entry level Oracle jobs these days. There are thousands of people who want them. People get pumped out of these training schools. There are NO entry level DBAs. They almost always start as developers or network admins and move over after 3-5 years. Data modelling or Systems Architecture is a senior level position. Any data modellers who did not start as developers and moved to data modellers or started as analysts and some such and moved over or hit the DBA path, did so 5+ years ago and there advice is out dated. You cant just walk in and gain a knowledge of design. There really isnt any 'junior' level or entry level work for designers. Its not practical and people have deadlines. I rarely see a data modeller job for people with less than 8 years of Oracle related experience and that is low.

this is the worst tech market in history by a mile. I am a developer and when I was contracting I was competing against 50-80 resumes per job. They would interview 3-7 people per job.

Dont fall for buzzword advertising. Go to a public college and get a technical related degree. Computer Science gives you the best skills, but is the hardest. Information Systems is the easiest, but Im not too impressed with the level of difficulty of those classes or with students in them. took a few undergrad ones for general knowledge. Im doing a Software Engineering Masters. Dont do this unless you have experience. Not an entry level skill set. Computer Science is best, but its alot of work...

see some of my comments below....
"snooper" <frand345_at_thonas.com> wrote in message news:pmivavkl9jfn6nt92k7as5gm6k4ghgivo2_at_4ax.com...
> Sorry about the OT post but I'm not sure where to post.
> I want to get into the data modeling field and would like to know what
> kind of background I would need. I don't have a CS degree, but I have
> taken about a half dozen courses in programming. I don't have any
> practical experience (am currently a computer operator), so what would
> be a good course of action. Would I have to be a DBA first?. I don't
> really want to go through the DBA certification (Oracle eg) process as
> it sounds very expensive and is not really what I want to do.

certifications is useless unless you have experience. Dont do it. If you want to learn it, its not a bad path to follow. Get the books used online and study those. If you insist on getting certified do the 8i tests and upgrade, its 6 tests instead of 4, but dont have to pay for that $2000 class. However, dont do this. your wasting your money.
>
> I think I have quite good analytical and verbal skills. I know that
> book knowledge does not mean much to recruiters, but I feel that even
> though I am self taught, I am reaching the point where I can say I
> know a decent amount about the field. I know my way around ER
> modeling, a good amount of ORM, but not so much UML. I am fairly

Class diagrams are similiar in alot of ways to E-R diagrams. Not exactly the same. Its a difference in approach. However with UML you also have Sequence diagrams, state machines, use cases. Most of that stuff doesnt apply. Your not going to create simulation type software.

> knowledgable about normalization, issues related to business rules,
> etc. I don't know too much about physical implementations, but I can
Only knucklehead interviews will go, named the 7 normal forms including the Boyce-Codd normal form and explain where each starts and ends. I have read them. I dont remember them and if Im asked, I tell the guy its a stupid question. You need to understand the basics of it. I do find relational theory helpful but NOT at the entry level.

> bone up on that. Further, I have 'practical' experience modeling
> certain web pages that I go to often, Amazon, eg. In short, there is
> virtually no aspect of data modeling in which I am completely
> clueless. I think that within six months or so I would be able to
> create a simple data model in a job interview if called upon to do so.

Your not useful with basic data models. Doesnt help. There is a whole process involved in design. You have requirements and dealing with customers. To designing for performance. You could be Albert Einstein, but this is not an entry level skillset. You cant get an entry level Vice President job either.

>
> Anybody have any thoughts, observations, suggestions? In what other
> newsgroups would this post be more appropriate?

Hope I didnt knock your hopes, but we get these often and I read alot of Oracle forums and listservs. Some poor guy posted on another he spent $15,000 on DBA training. Guy got suckered. Received on Wed Apr 30 2003 - 20:38:12 CDT