Re: SQL to extract and evaluate rows from multiple child rows and1 parent. (OT)

Rauf Sarwar wrote:

> DA Morgan <damorgan_at_exesolutions.com> wrote in message news:<3E41F18A.46EAA55C_at_exesolutions.com>...
> > Because passing a class in SQL or PL/SQL or Oracle involves teaching people not just
> > to parrot syntax ... but to think; to problem solve. When I give a midterm or a
> > final I grade each student individually on their ability to take a word problem,
> > translate it into pseudocode and then write a working statement, procedure,
> > function, trigger, whatever. I also grade those in the class in comparison to the
> > range of answers. And most importantly I grade myself based on how well I have
> > communicated the material.
> >
> > When someone goes to the internet and gets answers to history or biology questions
> > the point is learning how to perform research and learn the information. Teacher's
> > refer students for purposes of research not plagiarism. If one of your children were
> > to turn in homework that consisted of nothing more than google.com followed by
> > Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V you'd soon here about it (or at least as a parent I'd certainly hope
> > so).
> >
> > In the case of a student asking someone here such as you, or me, or Karsen, or
> > Howard, etc. to provide the answer the end result is that the student learns
> > nothing, other students can be penalized, the instructor is unable to evaluate what
> > is being communicated. And, at its most basic level, it is a violation of an honor
> > code that must exist for school to be places of education rather than high priced
> > baby-sitters.
> >
> > I know honor, integrity, and ethics are somewhat out of fashion ... but I feel that
> > I put my reputation, and the reputation of the University of Washington on the line
> > every time I give a student a passing grade and they graduate. If they go out into
> > the real world, using me as a reference or their certificate as a credential to
> > obtain a job ... if they can't do that job it reflects on me and it reflects on the
> > school.
> >
> > In spite of Dave's protests to the contrary I've seen the material from which his
> > question originated (or he is unfortunate enough to be trying to solve a textbook
> > problem) and don't buy that he has already modified the code given to him by Karsten
> > and will within less than 24 hours run it in a production environment (truly a scary
> > thought and if true it is a good thing I'm not the production DBA).
> >
> > So the short version of what has turned into a very long answer ... is that I care a
> > lot as do other instructors. I send my students to tahiti.oracle.com, I send them to
> > asktom.oracle.com, I send them all over the internet for study support and research.
> > I even encourage them to use these resources, class notes, class web site, and books
> > when taking tests. But that is far different from passing exam questions to you or
> > me or Tom and asking us to do their work. Does this make sense?
>
> Although I do agree with you but I must say that you are fighting a
> loosing battle. Internet genie has been out of the bottle for a while.
> What used to be a student asking another student for help in his/her
> own class... now he/she can get ready made help from thousands of
> experts just by a mouse click. By just typing "select * from..." in
> search and you will get a million hits with code examples and the
> whole explanation.
>
> So as an instructor... I guess you have to accept this fact and come
> up with more clever ways to test and jump start your student's brains.
>
> Regards
> /Rauf Sarwar

Thanks. We are at a point where the internet has become a huge and very valuable resource and we all take advantae of it. The problem is that any idiot can go to asktom.oracle.com, and lots of other places, and find great SQL and use it. The problem is that often they don't understand what it is, how it works, when to apply it, or equally bad if not worse ... when not apply.

So sometimes I get very advanced SQL solutions to questions that I now are well beyond the capabilities of a student. Or very sophisticated stored procedures that don't solve the problem at hand. Something also seen far to often on the job.

Thanks everyone for helping not just the instructors ... but also the students. And in five more weeks it will be finals time so expect some more of these. (with apologies to Dave if such is appropriate ... PS Dave ... please don't run that code in production without proper QA).

Daniel Morgan Received on Thu Feb 06 2003 - 14:32:35 CST