Re: Question about entry level Oracle DBA

Responses interspersed below:

Joel Garry wrote:

> Daniel Morgan <dmorgan_at_exesolutions.com> wrote in message news:<3DAAE348.D6B12ADA_at_exesolutions.com>...
> > los wrote:
> >
> > > If every job listing is asking for 3 to 5 years of experience in Oracle,
> > > how are entry levels supposed to break into the business? Is it impossible
> > > to get an entry level Oracle position right now?
> >
> > You are supposed to become a developer and learn about the architecture, how
> > to code, how to tune, how to debug, etc.
> >
>
> Who sez? That would be for a development DBA, does not necessarily
> generalize to all DBA's (except for those morons who post things
> like "Must have 5 years experience with O9R2").

I sez! Because if all I want from a DBA, and I interview and hire them for my clients, was someone that could do install, back-up and restore I would just send the UNIX SysAdmins to a one week class and save my clients the money. If you can't write SQL and PL/SQL you can't tune it. Your opinion in a code review will be worhtless. You won't know the impact difference between a static cursor and a dynamic cursor in a multiuser environment. Asking for advice on whether to use an IOT will be greeted with a blank stare. And most importantly ... when someone wants access to utl_file the DBA won't have any rational reason upon which to determine whether such access is appropriate.

> > Your question is analogous to the following:
> >
> > Every job listing for Chief of Thoracic Surgery is asking for 3 to 5 years of
> > experience performing surgery. How are you supposed to get into the business?
> > Or
> > Every job listing for Supreme Court Justice is asking for previous experience
> > as an attorney and judge. How are you supposed to get into the business?
> >
>
> Have you ever seen a job listing for Supreme Court Justice?

 Have you ever seen a job listing for DBA without experience?

> > In short ... do your apprenticeship. Pay your dues. There are a lot of good
> > Oracle developers who are far more qualified than you and they get first shot
> > at every opportunity which is as it should be.
>
> The "pay your dues" stuff is reasonable. However, the part about
> developers getting first shot at every opportunity is very
> questionable.

Not in any shop where I've ever worked. Not not with respect to any hiring decision I ever make.

I just blew someone out of an interview that had three previous years of DBA experience on their resume because they couldn't (and I swear it is true) write an inner join and turn it into an outer join and explain the impact.

>
> In many cases it is as others have posted, management has decided to
> move someone into the empty spot, and often that someone is "excessed"
> from another group, or some PC guy. When I was vendor-supporting
> DBA's, just about every one was new (probably some skew there because
> experienced ones wouldn't be asking... but I didn't get the impression
> that there were many customers like that). When I worked in a big gov
> shop, it was amazingly stupid. That's the real world.
>
> _Should_ developers get first shot? Some DBA's might argue about
> removing the "first" :-) If the place is big enough for more than one
> DBA, I would argue only one of them should have come from the recent
> development ranks, the skills required are much more global, and there
> should be a spread of experience among the DBA's (both length of time
> and breadth of experience).
>
> And I don't know if my view is again skewed by smaller shops, but to
> me it appears that most places don't want to have a full-time DBA, as
> it is considered simply overhead. So you wind up wearing multiple
> hats. Could be a bit of a pain on your resume, when you spend the
> majority of your time doing DBA tasks, but are not a "DBA." But if
> you really love it, it's not like work at all.
>
> jg
> --
> @home is bogus. "The No. 1 problem today is well-known; system
> administrators not patching systems with the latest (software)
> updates." - Joe Mambretti, director of Northwestern University's
> International Center for Advanced Internet Research

Most smaller shops can't afford a fully qualified DBA. But if they could ... they'd be standing in line for them.

It is a question of money ... nothing else.

Daniel Morgan Received on Tue Oct 15 2002 - 10:18:40 CDT