Re: Getting an Answer Is One Thing, Learning Is Another

Absolutely.

OTOH If I were to say that I can't organise my diary because I've got far too many pointless things to do in my diary then my manager would (rightly) give me a rocket for being a disorganised mess. (This scenario is sadly not entirely unlikely). The same ought to apply to managing software.

Doing things right generally means doing things efficiently. Do things by rules of thumb and without thought generally causes mayhem. (and doing things according to a one size fits all approach is called management consultancy <g>).

I will admit though that being given time to think about the correct approach and learn is a big advantage that I have working in the public sector.

--
Niall Litchfield
Oracle DBA
Audit Commission UK
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"Richard Foote" <Richard.Foote_at_oracle.com> wrote in message
news:3D58D72A.4CFEAFE7_at_oracle.com...


> Hi Niall,

>

> Having been in the education/training game for a while, there is another

> issue to consider. That being time. People are often so busy fighting

> fires that they don't have the time to consider what's causing them.

> They're so busy doing and implementing and getting things done, that

> they don't have the time to consider *how* to get things done (*right*).

>

> Deadlines, deadlines, pressures, targets, share prices, Bowie concerts,

> more deadlines, ... Good grief, who has the time to obtained the

> necessary knowledge, training, experience, testing, research, ... No

> wonder so many people post questions here and elsewhere without an

> attempt to discover things for themselves. They don't have the time.

>

> It's actually an art into itself and one that managers, organisations,

> governments but above all individuals need to learn to address.

>

> But one they often don't learn to address because they don't have the

> time ...

>

> Richard

>

> Niall Litchfield wrote:

> >

> > "Joel Garry" <joel-garry_at_home.com> wrote in message

> > news:91884734.0208121711.bfc1b33_at_posting.google.com...

> > > > Thanks again for the kind words. I'm not offended, but I *really*

don't


> > want

> > > > to give the impression that Oracle is some sort of technological God

to


> > be

> > > > tended by a select few, whilst everyone else follows holy writ (or

> > something

> > > > they read somewhere nce anyway). Any reasonably intelligent and

computer


> > > > literate folk can understand it and harness it, it'd be a shame if

there


> > was

> > > > a cult of names around a piece of software thats supposed to help us

> > manage

> > > > data.

> > >

> > > What I've seen, dealing with computer literate folk who don't know

> > > about Oracle,

> > > is that they _should_ be given that impression.  They just don't have

> > > the foundation to understand the issues, yet they make important

> > > decisions based on severe misconceptions.  This is the stuff of

> > > horror.  The point of the eWeek article was that people generally

> > > don't want to learn the foundations.

> >

> > I don't disagree either with the article or your overall thrust,

*except* in


> > so far as to say that I didn't say computer literate but *reasonably

> > intelligent* and computer literate (emphasis mine). I'm afraid that I'd

cast


> > doubt on the intelligence level of anyone who didn't attempt to

understand


> > what they were trying to manage. My rating of people who can't be

bothered


> > to learn the foundations (of anything) and who just want a list of

things to


> > do is very very low indeed. I'd still maintain though that Oracle (and

for


> > that matter MSSQL as well) is a complex but not *difficult* product to

> > understand. Providing that people are prepared to make the effort the

> > complexity is the challenge not the nature of the beast itself. IMO

anyway.


> >

> > > Large (2000+ users) OLTP system - excessed network admins get

> > > transferred to be DBA's with no training, can't understand why you

> > > would tune a production system differently than a development system.

> > > After all, they're going to put them on the same server...

> >

> > Hmmm. The no training part makes me sympathise with the admins, failing

to


> > understand prod vs dev makes me question their admin background.

> >

> > > We had a pretty sweet deal there for a while as magicians.  Why can't

> > > we have it again?

> >

> > 'Cos I look bad in a velvet cape and top hat?

> >

> > <rant>

> > one of my pet peeves is that people ever increasingly rely on science

and


> > technology and yet equally increasingly avoid understanding it because

it is


> > 'hard'. This leads to bad science and bad decision making - vis the GM

foods


> > and Cloning debates at the mo. Science and technology absolutely need

> > evangelists who can communicate the power and nature of their fields and

> > turn people on rather than put people off.

> >

> > </rant>

> >

> > --

> > Niall Litchfield

> > Oracle DBA

> > Audit Commission UK

> > *****************************************

> > Please include version and platform

> > and SQL where applicable

> > It makes life easier and increases the

> > likelihood of a good answer

> >

> > ******************************************