Re: Fifty years' experience in C programming; 20 in VB...

ABD - Eastman School (University of Rochester) Performance major / Theory

As an organist, you tend to be a musicologist, especially at Eastman with the legacy of Harold Gleason. My Doctoral research was in 16th Century German Theory. I was doing quit a bit of research on J. Gottfried Printz. Quite interesting because he had developed theories similar to the three-chord theories of J.P. Rameau but 150 years earlier. He actually developed rules about doubling a chord based on inversion which are very similar to the rules that a Freshman would be taught in a harmony class and not following the figured-bass theories that were the common means of harmonic classification during the high-baroque. He was referenced by J.S.Bach and was a personal friend of Telleman. One of my teachers(David Beach) was a Yale grad and influenced by A. Forte so we did quite a bit of Schenker Analysis work and Set Theory transformation analysis. Also, we spent a bit of time with information theory and did quit a bit of work with early computer (c.a. 1970) musical encoding algorithms. One of my tasks was to work on a means of encoding notation so that we could distinguish between enharmonic spelling. This was so that we would be able write analysis programs and CBT (PL/1 & SNOBOL) That meant that we would be able to distinguish between c-f-g and c-e#-g and things like a-flat,c,d-sharp,f-sharp vrs. a-flat,c,e-flat, g-flat. - not an easy task.

After I left Eastman, I took a BAL class night class, taught myself Cobol & Fortran, bought Knuth, read a couple of manuals on data structures and algorithms. Then I started officially doing programming work.

M.Pruet

Sybrand Bakker wrote:

> Why would you be in trouble with your Musicology degree? You're not the only
> one out there, I have one too, and I can only agree with your analysis
> below.
>
> Kind regards
>
> --
> Sybrand Bakker
> Senior Oracle DBA
>
> to reply remove '-verwijderdit' from my e-mail address
>
> PS As you seem to have specialised in the same field of Musicology, I would
> be interested to hear more of what you exactly did.
>
> "Madison Pruet" <mpruet_at_attbi.com> wrote in message
> news:3CD40C8C.A7A6BC6A_at_attbi.com...
> > > Opps - guess I'm in trouble with my Musicology degree..... ;-)
> > >
> > > Actually while Chris has a point, I think that with the way computers
> have been
> > > changing over the years and such, that anyone that has been forced in
> college to
> > > do research or self learning of any kind is going to be a far more
> valuable
> > > employee than a person simply having a degree in C.E.
> > >
> > > I know that many folks have often mentioned to me that they have
> observed that
> > > musicians have tended to make good programmers. I have often thought
> about that
> > > and pondered as to why that would be. I've come to the following
> conclusions
> > >
> > > 1) abstract thought patterns...
> > > Musicians are constantly thinking in terms of an artificial system.
> They deal
> > > with a base-7 world which has very specific rules based on style and
> period.
> > > They know for instance that what appears to be an A-flat 7th chord might
> really
> > > be a modified d-sharp chord acting as a raised II in C-major (i.e.
> German 6th),
> > > but the same notes could be a Domant-7th chord in D-flat Major. Same
> notes -
> > > different functionality - played differently - acts differently- etc.
> So for a
> > > good musician, there is a tremendous analysis that is done simply in the
> act of
> > > performing a piece.
> > >
> > > 2) Having to memorize a full hour's worth of music...
> > > Most music schools require a solo memorized recital for each student
> each year.
> > > You can never short-change the effort required to memorize a whole hour
> of
> > > music. In my case, I was an organist, so I was dealing with polyphonic
> music -
> > > four voices in the hands - one in the pedals. That's a huge effort. In
> order
> > > to accomplish that, the musician is having to constantly analyze the
> stuff -
> > > find patterns, make logic out of chaos, etc. This is especially a
> problem when
> > > you start dealing with set theory based compositions of the mid-20th
> contrary.
> > > (Yes - we had to do set theory work in music school....)
> > >
> > > 3) Creative work
> > > Improvisation ---- ARGGGGGG --- Take a style - improvise in that style.
> Follow
> > > the correct style --- etc. It's much more than simply playing a whole
> bunch of
> > > notes.
> > >
> > > 4) Self-teaching and research...
> > > In my case it was having to study 16/17th contrary treatises. - Had to
> teach
> > > myself German first..... Then had to figure out what the word
> "Schlectes"
> > > really meant in 16th century Thrungia. --- The ability to do self
> teaching is
> > > incredibly important in C.E. work. I guarantee you that if you can make
> sense
> > > of all of that, then you can make sense of most C.E. treatises. Quite
> honestly
> > > - I found Knuth rather easy to understand after having gone through all
> of the
> > > 16th century treatises.... ;-)
> > >
> > > Chris Weiss wrote:
> > >
> > > > I wasn't being the least bit silly.
> > > >
> > > > Unless I am mistaken I don't think complexity theory and algorithmic
> > > > analysis are part of the music or animal husbandry degree programs. I
> am
> > > > not saying that you have to be in college to learn fundamental
> computer
> > > > science, but it is more difficult to learn the basic theory outside of
> a
> > > > classroom setting.
> > > >
> > > > Being an "expert" in the syntax of a language and having good problem
> > > > solving skills may make someone an effective programmer, but being
> only a
> > > > programmer without the underlying framework of a computer science
> degree can
> > > > be a limiting factor. There are always exceptions, but I am talking
> about
> > > > trends and not exceptions.
> > > >
> > > > Would you hire a self-taught statistician? or a self taught mechanical
> > > > engineer? A programmer is to a computer scientist what a cad cam
> operator
> > > > is to a mechanical engineer. There is overlap between a programmer
> and a
> > > > computer scientist just as there is between the cad cam operator and
> the
> > > > engineer, but there is a fundamental gap between the former and the
> latter
> > > > in both categories. Learning through experience to craft a well
> written
> > > > program is not the same as having the cross training in engineering
> and math
> > > > that most computer science students have had.
> > > >
> > > > I have worked with many good programmers who could solve the every day
> > > > problem that crossed their desk quickly and elegantly, and they could
> often
> > > > solve some of the more difficult problems after a few years of
> experience.
> > > > However, I once saw an excellent programmer waste weeks on a problem
> that
> > > > was clearly NP-complete, meaning there was no polynomial algorithm.
> He was
> > > > an English major. Our CS intern at the time looked at the problem for
> half
> > > > a day and properly identified it as exponential. We hired the intern
> after
> > > > graduation, and she made more progress in her first year on the job
> than the
> > > > English major had in five years. The senior programmer wrote more
> lines of
> > > > code per week that the former intern had, but he lacked the training
> > > > necessary to solve some of the problems the recent grad was able to
> deal
> > > > with.
> > > >
> > > > I am sure we could go tit for tat with anecdotes. However, having
> worked
> > > > with several hundred programmers on everything from small teams to
> casts of
> > > > hundreds, I think that *IN GENERAL* there is no substitute for a
> computer
> > > > science degree.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > > Chris Weiss
> > > > mailto:chris_at_hpdbe.com
> > > > www.hpdbe.com
> > > > High Performance Database Engineering
> > > > Available for long and short term contracts
> > > >
> > > > "Larry Linson" <larry.linson_at_ntpcug.org> wrote in message
> > > > news:8WEA8.4277$Dx3.2845_at_nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
> > > > > Don't be silly. One of the best programmers I ever knew had a degree
> in
> > > > > Music, another had a degree in Animal Husbandry, and I have known
> many,
> > > > many
> > > > > other competent and capable people who had no degree at all. One
> > > > degree-less
> > > > > colleague held his own in the Research Division of a major computing
> > > > > company.
> > > > >
> > > > > In fact, quite a few years ago, we cringed whenever a new-hire had a
> > > > > Computer Science degree, because the probability was high that
> he/she
> > > > would
> > > > > expect to be assigned to write The Compiler That Saved Computing,
> and even
> > > > > though I worked for the largest computer manufacturer of the day,
> there
> > > > were
> > > > > precious few compiler-writing jobs available -- especially for
> entry-level
> > > > > CS grads.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
Received on Sat May 04 2002 - 15:23:12 CDT