REPOST: Re: oracle newbie...help?

"Alan" <alanshein_at_erols.com> wrote in message news:<a2sbdt$13umf8$1_at_ID-114862.news.dfncis.de>...
> A great, if somewhat misnamed book. It should be called, "Oracle 8i - The
> Reference You'll Use the Most," or " Oracle 8i - The Kinda Sorta Almost
> Complete Reference," or my favorite, "Oracle 8i - As Complete a Reference
> As You Can Get without Needing a Hand Truck".
>

How about "Oracle 8i - As complete a Reference as You Can Get Without Needing a Computer."

Or "Oracle 8i - A Very Large Book for an Obsolete Database That Would Be Even More Expensive If You Had To Print It Out From A PDF File."

I'm not sure I agree with having it as a primary book, but on the other hand I can't see just having one book to begin with. I do tend to cart around enough books for a handtruck, though.

I agree with Daniel that some people don't really understand what they are doing when using the various tools. It's a chick-'n'-egg problem, you have to learn both the theory and syntax, and in general the tools allow usage by those who are weak in both. On the other hand, you must avoid the trap of thinking that just because the tools allow weakness, that they require it (encourage it? is another issue). It's kind of interesting that TOAD in particular is lumped into the group, as it evolved quite specifically from and for developers, and yet now is basically one of the crowd (although perhaps less buggy).

Personally, I tend to use the tools less than most because I'm a big fan of using scripts to make repeatable and automatible tasks. But the odd thing is, I sometimes use the tools because I don't remember how to do obscure things - and I think memorizing X$ tables or whatever is ridiculous. But then again, I've often seen newbies rely on the tools as a crutch. There's no good middle ground, but on balance it is better to have the tools available. All I can say is emphasize to the newbies _nicely_ they've gotta learn the stuff. They've gotta do it, not just read about it, too.

As far as being a DBA or Data Architect, I'd say, spend a few years developing first. Then, depending on your particular experiences and who you happen to observe, it should be obvious.

>
> "Daniel A. Morgan" <damorgan_at_exesolutions.com> wrote in message
> news:3C4EA3C6.2ED31E8D_at_exesolutions.com...
> > The book I recommend to my students, if you only get one book, is Oracle
> 8i The
> > Complete Reference by Osborne (Oracle Press).
> >
> > But equally important is to spend a lot of time with all of the materials
> Oracle
> > has made available at http://technet.oracle.com.
> >
> > Daniel Morgan
> >
> >
> >
> > oscargrouch wrote:
> >
> > > alright...i retract my statement about understanding dbs...what about
> the
> > > book question?
> > >
> > > and one of the things i'm finding useful about sql navigator is that,
> when
> > > i'm not sure what sql to write for a query (all i'm doing at this point
> is
> > > querying), i can use the builder and then edit the code from what it
> gives
> > > me...will sql*plus do that?
> > >
> > > also, what about the book question?
> > >
> > > thanks...............
> > >
> > > "Daniel A. Morgan" <damorgan_at_exesolutions.com> wrote in message
> > > news:3C4E889A.2490EDF6_at_exesolutions.com...
> > > > Based on your email I take strong exception to your opening statement
> that
> you
> > > > "understand databases" ... you don't. Drop the pretense or you will
> just
> get
> > > > into trouble. I've been doing this for 30+ years and I would have
> great
> > > > hesitation in saying that. The subject is as deep as the Pacific
> Ocean.
> > > >
> > > > SQL Navigator and TOAD are two tools that do roughly the same thing
> and
> are sold
> > > > by the same company. I would advise you to use neither if you are
> trying
> to
> > > > learn Oracle. Stick to SQL*Plus and learn what you are doing. People
> that
> rely
> > > > on these tools rarely can write DDL and often don't do such a great
> job of
> DML
> > > > either.
> > > >
> > > > Daniel Morgan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > oscargrouch wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > hello...i understand databases and some kinds of data warehouses...i
> know
> > > > > how to write simple select queries for oracle...i want to learn
> extensive
> > > > > querying and move to creating databases and warehouses and marts and
> > > > > such...am i talking dba or architect? or neither? or is it the
> same
> thing?
> > > > >
> > > > > tools: i'm using sql navigator...what's the difference between it
> and
> toad?
> > > > > is there a tool i'd want instead of either? should i use actual
> oracle
> > > > > products instead?
> > > > >
> > > > > what one book is best to teach me the stuff i described above?
> > > > >
> > > > > thanks in advance for any advice....
> > > >
> >

jg

--
I've seen some excellent architects, and some real BS artists.  DBA's
tend to be put-up or shut-up.  Many more developers are needed than
DBA's, and many more DBA's are needed than architects.

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