Re: automating database creation
From: Shane Borden <"Shane>
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2020 07:36:00 -0400
Message-Id: <DA1F7A29-2DA5-4C6B-B784-ACE46CE0CDCE_at_yahoo.com>
>> Use custom seed templates.
>> Not use shell scripts, but use a proper language - probably python as that reflects the team's skillset quite well.
>> Possibly use the Database Lifecycle Management pack (we weren't licensed).
>> Probably not make extensive use of cluvfy and orachk as we do today, they have a habit of throwing new known errors/warnings with each update. As we have automated server builds as well we probably don't get much value from them.
>> General Purpose.
>>
>> Having said all that, I almost certainly wouldn't choose to start again from scratch. We picked most of the technologies above because we already had the expertise and/or manual scripts etc that matched our environment and standards using those technologies. Developing a robust effective and reliable automated deployment and/or configuration system for Oracle is hard and requires more work than most people would estimate. A very long time ago, in a different but relevant context, Joel Spolsky wrote this piece about Netscape 6 (remember Netscape!) https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-never-do-part-i/. I recommend the whole piece, but the usual temptation for starting again from scratch is that you'll do things better this time. I'll leave this quote here as a rebuttal to that idea and a taster for the piece.
>>
>> It’s important to remember that when you start from scratch there is absolutely no reason to believe that you are going to do a better job than you did the first time. First of all, you probably don’t even have the same programming team that worked on version one, so you don’t actually have “more experience”. You’re just going to make most of the old mistakes again, and introduce some new problems that weren’t in the original version.
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> Nenad
>>
>>
>>
>> https://nenadnoveljic.com/blog/about/
>>
>>
>>
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Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2020 07:36:00 -0400
Message-Id: <DA1F7A29-2DA5-4C6B-B784-ACE46CE0CDCE_at_yahoo.com>
I feel like this is a really good use case for Ansible.
Shane Borden
sborden76_at_yahoo.com
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 14, 2020, at 6:19 AM, niall.litchfield_at_gmail.com wrote: > > > Inline > >>> On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 11:41 AM Noveljic Nenad <nenad.noveljic_at_vontobel.com> wrote: >>> Questions to teams responsible for 100+ databases: >>> >>> >>> >>> 1. How did you automate database creation? >>>
>> Shell scripts for software deployment and database creation, Puppet for server config management. Ansible and/or VRO for orchestration.
>>> 2. What would you do differently if you‘d build the solution from scratch again? >>>
>> Use custom seed templates.
>> Not use shell scripts, but use a proper language - probably python as that reflects the team's skillset quite well.
>> Possibly use the Database Lifecycle Management pack (we weren't licensed).
>> Probably not make extensive use of cluvfy and orachk as we do today, they have a habit of throwing new known errors/warnings with each update. As we have automated server builds as well we probably don't get much value from them.
>>> 3. If you use dbca, what kind of templates do you use? >>>
>> General Purpose.
>>
>> Having said all that, I almost certainly wouldn't choose to start again from scratch. We picked most of the technologies above because we already had the expertise and/or manual scripts etc that matched our environment and standards using those technologies. Developing a robust effective and reliable automated deployment and/or configuration system for Oracle is hard and requires more work than most people would estimate. A very long time ago, in a different but relevant context, Joel Spolsky wrote this piece about Netscape 6 (remember Netscape!) https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-never-do-part-i/. I recommend the whole piece, but the usual temptation for starting again from scratch is that you'll do things better this time. I'll leave this quote here as a rebuttal to that idea and a taster for the piece.
>>
>> It’s important to remember that when you start from scratch there is absolutely no reason to believe that you are going to do a better job than you did the first time. First of all, you probably don’t even have the same programming team that worked on version one, so you don’t actually have “more experience”. You’re just going to make most of the old mistakes again, and introduce some new problems that weren’t in the original version.
>
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> Nenad
>>
>>
>>
>> https://nenadnoveljic.com/blog/about/
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________
>>
>> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
>>
>> Bitte denken Sie an die Umwelt, bevor Sie dieses E-Mail drucken.
>>
>>
>> Important Notice
>> This message is intended only for the individual named. It may contain confidential or privileged information. If you are not the named addressee you should in particular not disseminate, distribute, modify or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail, if you have received this message by mistake and delete it from your system.
>> Without prejudice to any contractual agreements between you and us which shall prevail in any case, we take it as your authorization to correspond with you by e-mail if you send us messages by e-mail. However, we reserve the right not to execute orders and instructions transmitted by e-mail at any time and without further explanation.
>> E-mail transmission may not be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete. Also processing of incoming e-mails cannot be guaranteed. All liability of Vontobel Holding Ltd. and any of its affiliates (hereinafter collectively referred to as "Vontobel Group") for any damages resulting from e-mail use is excluded. You are advised that urgent and time sensitive messages should not be sent by e-mail and if verification is required please request a printed version. Please note that all e-mail communications to and from the Vontobel Group are subject to electronic storage and review by Vontobel Group. Unless stated to the contrary and without prejudice to any contractual agreements between you and Vontobel Group which shall prevail in any case, e-mail-communication is for informational purposes only and is not intended as an offer or solicitation for the purchase or sale of any financial instrument or as an official confirmation of any transaction.
>> The legal basis for the processing of your personal data is the legitimate interest to develop a commercial relationship with you, as well as your consent to forward you commercial communications. You can exercise, at any time and under the terms established under current regulation, your rights. If you prefer not to receive any further communications, please contact your client relationship manager if you are a client of Vontobel Group or notify the sender. Please note for an exact reference to the affected group entity the corporate e-mail signature. For further information about data privacy at Vontobel Group please consult www.vontobel.com.
>>
> > > -- > Niall Litchfield > Oracle DBA > http://www.orawin.info
-- http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-lReceived on Fri Aug 14 2020 - 13:36:00 CEST