Re: JVM in the database

They are making much effort in removing Java from stuff - one example is Spatial. Officially, nowadays Spatial does not need Java in the database any more, and the dependency in DBCA is gone, too. BUT if you need some special functions, they just won't work w/o having access to the Java base functions. Bad solution for a good cause IMHO.

At least oracle makes some effort to address the problem.

-- 
Martin Klier // Performing Databases GmbH 
Managing Partner // Senior DB Consultant 
Oracle ACE Director 

martin.klier_at_performing-db.com // https://www.performing-databases.com 



> Von: "gogala mladen" <gogala.mladen_at_gmail.com>

> An: "Tim Hall" <tim_at_oracle-base.com>, "Sayan Malakshinov" <xt.and.r_at_gmail.com>

> CC: "steve harville" <steve.harville_at_gmail.com>, "Mark Farnham" <mwf_at_rsiz.com>,

> "Oracle-L Freelists" <oracle-l_at_freelists.org>

> Gesendet: Montag, 18. November 2019 13:55:17


> Betreff: Re: JVM in the database





> Yes, Tim is right. XML stuff in the database is implemented using Java. Whatever

> is horribly slow (multi-media, spatial) is implemented using JVM in the


> database.





> Regards


> On 11/18/19 7:12 AM, Tim Hall wrote:



>> I think he means not applying the Java patches. The combo is a Java and a "all
>> the rest patch". You can choose not to apply the Java one.

>> Regarding the "we don't use Java in the database" point, are you sure about
>> that? Over the years a bunch of functionality has been implemented using the
>> JVM. Some things subsequently got incorporated into the kernel. Some didn't. I
>> don't know off the top of my head, but I remember the early XML stuff
>> (DBMS_XMLQUERY) and InterMedia used the JVM under the hood. While it's in
>> there, there is a possibility you are using it.

>> Cheers

>> Tim...

>> On Mon, Nov 18, 2019 at 11:17 AM Sayan Malakshinov < [ mailto:xt.and.r_at_gmail.com
>> | xt.and.r_at_gmail.com ] > wrote:

>>> Hi Steve,

>>> Hm, does it require anything else besides critical patch updates? Or don't you
>>> install them at all?

>>> On Mon, Nov 18, 2019 at 1:16 AM Steve Harville < [
>>> mailto:steve.harville_at_gmail.com | steve.harville_at_gmail.com ] > wrote:

>>>> We never install Java in the database because we don't like doing all those Java
>>>> security patches.

>>>> On Sun, Nov 17, 2019 at 2:33 PM Mark W. Farnham < [ mailto:mwf_at_rsiz.com |
>>>> mwf_at_rsiz.com ] > wrote:

>>>>> I believe that for most of the things that are frequently done in java,
>>>>> execution of the code on the client (and significantly not on RDBMS licensed
>>>>> cpu resource) is fine (if not superior), while the tight coupling of PL/SQL
>>>>> with the Oracle kernel and the avoidance of network trips and latency makes
>>>>> PL/SQL a superior choice for things that could in theory be done with java
>>>>> stored in the database and executed there on licensed cpus.

>>>>> In theory once the human readable syntax is translated into some sort of pcode,
>>>>> machine code, or rdbms calls, any source language could in theory be stored in
>>>>> and executed the same way PL/SQL is. Storing the source code in the database
>>>>> does avoid looking for it <wherever> if and when security or cross dependencies
>>>>> require a program unit to be recompiled, but that is merely (at least for the
>>>>> language structures that are compatible) merely providing the language syntax
>>>>> parser as available to the RDBMS. Common runtime additional passes after the
>>>>> language syntax is out of the way is something that was becoming very effective
>>>>> in the mid 1970s on timesharing operating systems. With a 7 pass optimizing
>>>>> PL/I subset G compiler available that was a superset of Pascal, for example,
>>>>> you could build a Pascal compiler that generated PL/SQL, which was then handed
>>>>> to the PL/I compiler.

>>>>> I’m not holding my breath.

>>>>> mwf

>>>>> From: [ mailto:oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org | oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org ]
>>>>> [mailto: [ mailto:oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org | oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org
>>>>> ] ] On Behalf Of Mladen Gogala
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2019 9:21 AM
>>>>> To: [ mailto:oracle-l_at_freelists.org | oracle-l_at_freelists.org ]
>>>>> Subject: Re: JVM in the database

>>>>> From my experience, JVM in the database gets very little use. I am not sure why
>>>>> is that, Java is the new COBOL and everybody is doing applications in Java. OO
>>>>> programming which is very useful and very modern, as you can see here:

>>>>> [
>>>>> https://cacm.acm.org/careers/238279-object-oriented-programmingthe-trillion-dollar-disaster/fulltext
>>>>> |
>>>>> https://cacm.acm.org/careers/238279-object-oriented-programmingthe-trillion-dollar-disaster/fulltext
>>>>> ]

>>>>> is mostly done in Java and Python. Just about everybody is doing Java. However,
>>>>> the Java OO orientation might be the answer why people don't use it in the
>>>>> database. When you write a trigger, a function or a procedure and store it in
>>>>> the database, you want it to be as streamlined and efficient as possible. You
>>>>> don't want all that OO chaff that defines strings, regular expressions or
>>>>> alike. PL/SQL which is mostly procedural in nature, is far better suited for DB
>>>>> work than all that OO clutter in Java. Having said that, I am sure that in the
>>>>> long run, Java will prevail. Databases on Millennium Falcon will probably run
>>>>> Java internal procedures, which may bring into question completing the Kessel
>>>>> run in less than 12 parsecs. However, at that point I will have 6' of earth on
>>>>> top of me and will not care.

>>>>> On 11/16/19 2:06 AM, Noveljic Nenad wrote:

>>>>>> For what purposes would you use JVM in the database?

>>>>>> Best regards,

>>>>>> Nenad

>>>>>> [ https://nenadnoveljic.com/blog/ | https://nenadnoveljic.com/blog/ ]

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>>>>> --
>>>>> Mladen Gogala
>>>>> Database Consultant
>>>>> Tel: (347) 321-1217

>>> --
>>> Best regards,
>>> Sayan Malakshinov
>>> Oracle performance tuning engineer
>>> Oracle ACE Associate
>>> [ http://orasql.org/ | http://orasql.org ]



> --

> Mladen Gogala

> Database Consultant


> Tel: (347) 321-1217


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