Re: JVM in the database

Now interestingly, imagine the following scenario...

The Multilingual Engine based on Graal goes live, allowing Javascript stored procedures and then other languages like Python etc. Graal works so well they rip out Java from the database and it's just another language supported on top of Graal. They implement PL/SQL on Graal.
They implement SQL on Graal.
Everything ends up with the "same bytecode", regardless of where it started. They implement ZX81 basic on Graal.
My teenage self explodes in due to some temporal feedback loop...

Cheers

Tim...

On Mon, Nov 18, 2019 at 12:55 PM Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen_at_gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes, Tim is right. XML stuff in the database is implemented using Java.
> Whatever is horribly slow (multi-media, spatial) is implemented using JVM
> in the database.
>
> Regards
> On 11/18/19 7:12 AM, Tim Hall wrote:
>
> I think he means not applying the Java patches. The combo is a Java and a
> "all the rest patch". You can choose not to apply the Java one.
>
> Regarding the "we don't use Java in the database" point, are you sure
> about that? Over the years a bunch of functionality has been implemented
> using the JVM. Some things subsequently got incorporated into the kernel.
> Some didn't. I don't know off the top of my head, but I remember the early
> XML stuff (DBMS_XMLQUERY) and InterMedia used the JVM under the hood. While
> it's in there, there is a possibility you are using it.
>
> Cheers
>
> Tim...
>
> On Mon, Nov 18, 2019 at 11:17 AM Sayan Malakshinov <xt.and.r_at_gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Steve,
>>
>> Hm, does it require anything else besides critical patch updates? Or
>> don't you install them at all?
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 18, 2019 at 1:16 AM Steve Harville <steve.harville_at_gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> We never install Java in the database because we don't like doing all
>>> those Java security patches.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 17, 2019 at 2:33 PM Mark W. Farnham <mwf_at_rsiz.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I believe that for most of the things that are frequently done in java,
>>>> execution of the code on the client (and significantly not on RDBMS
>>>> licensed cpu resource) is fine (if not superior), while the tight coupling
>>>> of PL/SQL with the Oracle kernel and the avoidance of network trips and
>>>> latency makes PL/SQL a superior choice for things that could in theory be
>>>> done with java stored in the database and executed there on licensed cpus.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In theory once the human readable syntax is translated into some sort
>>>> of pcode, machine code, or rdbms calls, any source language could in theory
>>>> be stored in and executed the same way PL/SQL is. Storing the source code
>>>> in the database does avoid looking for it <wherever> if and when security
>>>> or cross dependencies require a program unit to be recompiled, but that is
>>>> merely (at least for the language structures that are compatible) merely
>>>> providing the language syntax parser as available to the RDBMS. Common
>>>> runtime additional passes after the language syntax is out of the way is
>>>> something that was becoming very effective in the mid 1970s on timesharing
>>>> operating systems. With a 7 pass optimizing PL/I subset G compiler
>>>> available that was a superset of Pascal, for example, you could build a
>>>> Pascal compiler that generated PL/SQL, which was then handed to the PL/I
>>>> compiler.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I’m not holding my breath.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> mwf
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org [mailto:
>>>> oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org] *On Behalf Of *Mladen Gogala
>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, November 16, 2019 9:21 AM
>>>> *To:* oracle-l_at_freelists.org
>>>> *Subject:* Re: JVM in the database
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From my experience, JVM in the database gets very little use. I am not
>>>> sure why is that, Java is the new COBOL and everybody is doing applications
>>>> in Java. OO programming which is very useful and very modern, as you can
>>>> see here:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://cacm.acm.org/careers/238279-object-oriented-programmingthe-trillion-dollar-disaster/fulltext
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> is mostly done in Java and Python. Just about everybody is doing Java.
>>>> However, the Java OO orientation might be the answer why people don't use
>>>> it in the database. When you write a trigger, a function or a procedure
>>>> and store it in the database, you want it to be as streamlined and
>>>> efficient as possible. You don't want all that OO chaff that defines
>>>> strings, regular expressions or alike. PL/SQL which is mostly procedural in
>>>> nature, is far better suited for DB work than all that OO clutter in Java.
>>>> Having said that, I am sure that in the long run, Java will prevail.
>>>> Databases on Millennium Falcon will probably run Java internal procedures,
>>>> which may bring into question completing the Kessel run in less than 12
>>>> parsecs. However, at that point I will have 6' of earth on top of me and
>>>> will not care.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 11/16/19 2:06 AM, Noveljic Nenad wrote:
>>>>
>>>> For what purposes would you use JVM in the database?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nenad
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://nenadnoveljic.com/blog/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>> Mladen Gogala
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>>
>> --
>> Best regards,
>> Sayan Malakshinov
>> Oracle performance tuning engineer
>> Oracle ACE Associate
>> http://orasql.org
>>
> --
> Mladen Gogala
> Database Consultant
> Tel: (347) 321-1217
>
>

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