Re: AW: How to Install Oracle 12 Client in Existing Oracle Home

From: Andrew Kerber <andrew.kerber_at_gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 8 May 2019 16:28:20 -0500
Message-ID: <CAJvnOJZagy9vednL6Qj5mHw6U-5DsJ5aV-CY8atAPuaMf4Y2Xw_at_mail.gmail.com>



he is now, not 'he is not'. Typing faster than thinking...

On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 4:27 PM Andrew Kerber <andrew.kerber_at_gmail.com> wrote:

> It sounds to me like its simply a matter of his boss overriding his
> recommendation, and he is not at the point where he needs to do what his
> boss is instructing, regardless of his best judgment. Been there, done
> that, got the t-shirt. It goes with the job sometimes. Backed when I
> worked in health care as an oracle dba, doctors always knew more about the
> database than I did. Even when they didnt.
>
> On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 4:21 PM Andy Sayer <andysayer_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> This is all very questionable.
>>
>> "It would only be fixed by restarting the app server and bouncing the
>> database. At that point, it was running on old Solaris hardware and we
>> were in the process of upgrading the app and migrating to Red Hat 7 and
>> much newer servers. We did some analysis and found that the database was
>> responding very quickly, however the app was sending the same SQL almost a
>> million times, so it looked like the SQL was taking a long time to run. "
>> This seems quite suspicious. Why did restarting the app server and
>> bouncing the database help reduce the frequency the app was sending the
>> same SQL? Or help the problem at all? Are you sure that wasn't just some
>> red herring that looked terrible but was't the real problem? Was it
>> executing the same SQL with the same bind values, or was it likely that it
>> was trying to join data in the application? Or some other classic
>> slow-by-slow process?
>> If this is something that happens several times a year and the whole app
>> slows down then something is different at those times - perhaps another
>> process is running to tip the workload from manageable to unmanageable,
>> perhaps a critical but quick SQL changes plan which increases it's duration
>> by a tiny fraction but because it's so important everything gets effected,
>> perhaps the result of some important SQL is usually cached somewhere but
>> something invalidated the cache.
>> How much slower are we really talking about here? Is this all over the
>> application or just a few processes?
>> "The decision was made to co-locate the app and the database (something
>> I don’t like to do) to “eliminate the network” from the transaction."
>> You mean add load to the DB server? :) Any network elimination you get
>> from using the same Oracle home is also achieved by using a different
>> Oracle home on the same server, so long as the connections point to the
>> same machine you're in. You can also achieve bequeath connections but that
>> would likely require an application change - and if you're going to change
>> the application, you might as well fix the slow-by-slow behavior.
>> How it could help the situation you described isn't terribly clear - you
>> didn't do anything to speed up the network when you "fixed" the issues
>> before, you just restarted either end.
>> "My belief was that the move from Solaris to Red Hat would have been
>> enough to solve the problem as benchmarking that I had done showed that the
>> Red Hat servers were 10 – 20 times faster than the Solaris servers."
>> What exactly were you benchmarking? Did you run the application for long
>> enough with enough load that you would have hit whatever problem you were
>> seeing before? Were you using the same network? Did you do exactly the same
>> benchmark on older servers to show that it would have hit the problem you
>> were seeing?
>> "I was overruled, so I had to create an Oracle Home that ran the
>> database and also contained all of the client software so the app could
>> run."
>> Have you explained to the decision makers why you don't need to use the
>> same Oracle home to achieve what they think they want? (and why you
>> shouldn't)?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Andy
>>
>> On Wed, 8 May 2019 at 22:00, Tim Gorman <tim.evdbt_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> A few years ago, I had the pleasure of helping a vendor move their
>>> Fortran-based ERP package for the building construction industry from
>>> mainframe VSAM files to Oracle. It was easy, and it wasn't pretty, but
>>> they needed the data in an RDBMS so that they could feed BI/DW environments.
>>>
>>> The application itself still hums along on Fortran. Today. In 2019.
>>> And the vendor itself is comfortably profitable in their niche in the
>>> construction industry.
>>>
>>> Before anyone thinks themselves superior, remember that we have all seen
>>> highways and bridges rebuilt in a few months while in use, but none of us
>>> have ever seen that happen in software, ever, anywhere. The project
>>> managers, trained in construction and repurposed into IT, were awesome and
>>> performed their jobs flawlessly, keeping the development and testing teams
>>> progressing smoothly with full transparency and no hiccups.
>>>
>>> It is no joke that if buildings and roads were built the way software is
>>> developed, then the first gopher to come along would destroy civilization.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/8/19 15:20, Michael D O'Shea/Woodward Informatics Ltd wrote:
>>>
>>> All I can say is that I am gobsmacked. Having written that, I saw a
>>> green-field VB6 contract role advertised the other day. They're going to
>>> get who they deserve, that’s for sure.
>>>
>>> Thanks for your replies all.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 08.05.2019 um 19:34 schrieb Jeff Chirco <backseatdba_at_gmail.com>:
>>>
>>> Our ERP system is done in COBOL. It was a package purchased many years
>>> ago but we own the source code and have completely redone it over the
>>> years. It is a totally custom ERP system. The COBOL developers range from
>>> 20-39 years old, granted they were all hired from within and trained into
>>> that position. However we have begun to work on moving this ERP system
>>> into APEX.
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 7:42 AM Michael D O’Shea/Woodward Informatics Ltd
>>> <woodwardinformatics_at_strychnine.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I just have to ask, sorry - COBOL? Is there much COBOL there or this is
>>>> just one of the remaining remnant applications? And is new COBOL
>>>> development ongoing? And the developers, what age range?
>>>>
>>>> I do a lot of contract work in banks and although I’ve heard rumours
>>>> there is COBOL in the wild, I have never met one of these developers.
>>>> Especially Pro*COBOL.
>>>>
>>>> Decades back I used to develop in Cics and RM/COBOL. As I write, that
>>>> was decades back. I have not seen COBOL on the (UK) contract job boards for
>>>> years either.
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> Von meinem iPhone gesendet
>>>>
>>>> Am 08.05.2019 um 15:31 schrieb Scott Canaan <srcdco_at_rit.edu>:
>>>>
>>>> I was wondering the same thing. In 12.1.0.2, the Oracle Homes are
>>>> slightly different, though. I have to make sure that the Pro*COBOL
>>>> precompiler is there, as the application is written in COBOL.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In looking at the inventory on the special Oracle Home that I built in
>>>> 2016 that includes the client, the comps.xml file is different in that it
>>>> includes the client install in addition to the base install.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The problem is that I can’t just take a chance that it will work.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Scott Canaan ‘88*
>>>>
>>>> *Sr Database Administrator *Information & Technology Services
>>>> Finance & Administration
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Rochester Institute of Technology *o: (585) 475-7886 | f: (585)
>>>> 475-7520
>>>>
>>>> *srcdco_at_rit.edu <srcdco_at_rit.edu>* | c: (585) 339-8659
>>>>
>>>> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE*: The information transmitted, including
>>>> attachments, is intended only for the person(s) or entity to which it is
>>>> addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any
>>>> review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any
>>>> action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than
>>>> the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please
>>>> contact the sender and destroy any copies of this information.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Shane Borden <sborden76_at_gmail.com>
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 8, 2019 10:19 AM
>>>> *To:* Scott Canaan <srcdco_at_rit.edu>
>>>> *Cc:* oracle-l_at_freelists.org
>>>> *Subject:* Re: How to Install Oracle 12 Client in Existing Oracle Home
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps I am mistaken, but isn’t the client already a part of the
>>>> database software?
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Shane Borden
>>>>
>>>> sborden76_at_gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On May 8, 2019, at 9:59 AM, Scott Canaan <srcdco_at_rit.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We have an application that needs to have the Oracle client installed
>>>> in the same Oracle Home as the database software. Somehow, I managed to do
>>>> it with Oracle 12.1.0.2, but the client installer for Oracle 12.2.0.1 won’t
>>>> let me. It says there’s already Oracle software in that home and won’t let
>>>> me move on.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How do I do this?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is Oracle 12.2.0.1 on Red Hat 7 Linux.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Scott Canaan ‘88*
>>>>
>>>> *Sr Database Administrator *Information & Technology Services
>>>> Finance & Administration
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Rochester Institute of Technology *o: (585) 475-7886 | f: (585)
>>>> 475-7520
>>>>
>>>> *srcdco_at_rit.edu <srcdco_at_rit.edu>* | c: (585) 339-8659
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE*: The information transmitted, including
>>>> attachments, is intended only for the person(s) or entity to which it is
>>>> addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any
>>>> review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any
>>>> action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than
>>>> the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please
>>>> contact the sender and destroy any copies of this information.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
> --
> Andrew W. Kerber
>
> 'If at first you dont succeed, dont take up skydiving.'
>

-- 
Andrew W. Kerber

'If at first you dont succeed, dont take up skydiving.'


--
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Received on Wed May 08 2019 - 23:28:20 CEST

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