RE: oracle on VM or non-VM ?!!

From: Mark W. Farnham <mwf_at_rsiz.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 09:57:27 -0500
Message-ID: <075f01d36790$2399f440$6acddcc0$_at_rsiz.com>



I believe most Oracle salesmen will ATTEMPT to license every core in an ESX host.  

I believe Iggy's counterpoint is correct as well.  

I believe this means it is up to the customer to properly negotiate license core counts, and left to its own devices Oracle will license as Tim indicated.  

Given the nature of database demand plus the default attempt to license the entire ESX host, I believe it is often useful to configure an ESX host as what is needed for Oracle database services at peak load plus whatever prudence margin you believe is warranted.  

Sorry I couldn't write that shorter, but taken in context I believe that both Tim and Iggy are correct:  

If your need for ESX host "vmotion" for other service peak loads running counter to known database services ebb loads is WORTH pressing the point, Iggy has given you the ammunition with which to negotiate.  

Tim's way is simpler, and absent the need to use "sometimes database" cores for other purposes, it is easier.  

mwf  

From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org [mailto:oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org] On Behalf Of Iggy Fernandez
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2017 10:11 PM To: jprem_at_outlook.com; tim.evdbt_at_gmail.com Cc: andrew.kerber_at_gmail.com; oracle-l_at_freelists.org Subject: Re: oracle on VM or non-VM ?!!  

re: "Having said this, understand that Oracle will license based on the core count in the ESX host or hosts in a virtual machine cluster. They will not bother with niceties about virtual machines being restricted to individual nodes within a cluster, even if VMware says it will "back you up" on such a restriction. If any VM within a cluster runs Oracle, then all of the cores in the cluster will be licensed by Oracle. So, understanding this, it is important to designate a hypervisor cluster entirely for Oracle use only if concerned about maximizing Oracle licensing. Just my US$0.02..."  

The VMware white paper is at
https://www.vmware.com/content/dam/digitalmarketing/vmware/en/pdf/whitepaper /solutions/oracle/understanding_oracle_certification_support_licensing_vmwar e_environments-white-paper.pdf  

<https://www.vmware.com/content/dam/digitalmarketing/vmware/en/pdf/whitepape
r/solutions/oracle/understanding_oracle_certification_support_licensing_vmwa re_environments-white-paper.pdf> Understanding Oracle Certification, Support and Licensing ...

www.vmware.com

understanding oracle certification, support and licensing for vmware environments white paper may 2017

The germane sentence is "In particular, DRS Host Affinity rules can be used to run Oracle on a subset of the hosts within a cluster. In many cases, customers can use vSphere to achieve substantial licensing savings."  

Another article worth reading is in the August 2017 issue of the NoCOUG Journal http://nocoug.org/Journal/NoCOUG_Journal_201708.pdf#page=4 written by House of Brick and an intellectual property attorney. The article is specifically about cloud licensing but DRS host affinity rules are mentioned in passing,

 <http://nocoug.org/Journal/NoCOUG_Journal_201708.pdf#page=4> Vol. 31, No. 3 . AUGUST 2017 - NOCOUG nocoug.org

Vol. 31, No. 3 . AUGUST 2017 Oracle Cloud Revealed Brian Hitchcock takes notes. See page 8. Parallel RMAN Backups with Standard Edition Easy-Peasy says Norbert Debes.

Here are some interesting quotes from that article:

"Somewhere in your agreement is the following definition of the term Processor: Processor shall be defined as all processors where the Oracle programs are installed and/or running. This is the most fundamental and important definition in your agreement."  

"Installed is a past-tense activity that presently applies. Running is a present-tense activity. There is nothing indicating a license requirement for prospective activities (things that might happen in the future), no matter how easy they may be to bring about."  

"The ... policy document is a non-contractual reference. It is excluded by the Entire Agreement clause of your master agreement with Oracle."  

"The main point that I would like all NoCOUG readers to take from this discussion is that your contract with Oracle is what matters. You do not have to do something that is not in the best interest of your organization when it is outside of the scope of your binding agreement with Oracle."      

Iggy Fernandez

Email: iggy_fernandez_at_hotmail.com

Cellphone: (925) 478 3161

Blog: Explaining the Explain Plan
<http://www.toadworld.com/members/iggy_5f00_fernandez/blogs>

Author of Beginning Oracle Database 12
<http://www.amazon.com/Beginning-Oracle-Database-12c-Administration/dp/14842
01949> c Administration

Editor of the NoCOUG Journal
<http://www.nocoug.org/Journal/NoCOUG_Journal_Latest.pdf>
 


From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org <oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org> on behalf of Tim Gorman <tim.evdbt_at_gmail.com> Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2017 12:27 PM To: jprem_at_outlook.com
Cc: andrew.kerber_at_gmail.com; oracle-l_at_freelists.org Subject: Re: oracle on VM or non-VM ?!!  

Expanding on a few of Andrew's points, I can't believe that it has been almost 10 years now, but it has...

9 years ago, I was hired by our local rapid-transit agency specifically to assist in deploying Oracle RAC and Oracle DataGuard. At that time, they had also begun using VMWare ESX with HA, VMotion, and Storage VMotion for their internal infrastructure.

Oracle RAC is a scalability option only -- it was not designed as an HA solution and any HA capabilities it possesses are necessary for it to simply exist. So, if more horsepower is needed, then scale up with hardware until the limit for the chosen hardware platform is reached. Beyond that limit, use Oracle RAC to continue to scale up across servers.

For database high-availability (HA), use Oracle DataGuard. Period. Full stop.

Long story short: none of their systems needed to scale beyond the hardware limit of their chosen platform, so there was no need for Oracle RAC. Also, database change rate was well within the capabilities of Storage VMotion, and so with VMware HA, VMotion, and Storage VMotion, they had a more comprehensive solution for HA than DataGuard, because VMware would move the entire environment, not just the database as DataGuard would.

So I scotched the two reasons I was originally hired, and my 18-month engagement was concluded in 4 weeks. I had talked my way out of a decent gig, but as a taxpayer it was the responsible solution. While it is joyous and wonderful to deploy the right tools on a job, it is excruciatingly painful and downright frustrating to deploy the wrong tools for a job.

But, Oracle sales was very unhappy. Their response was to begin a campaign to paint the customer's infrastructure team as incompetent, "incapable" of understanding "advanced features" like RAC and DataGuard. Four years later, after turnover in staff and management, they became an Exadata shop. So it goes...


Having said this, understand that Oracle will license based on the core count in the ESX host or hosts in a virtual machine cluster. They will not bother with niceties about virtual machines being restricted to individual nodes within a cluster, even if VMware says it will "back you up" on such a restriction. If any VM within a cluster runs Oracle, then all of the cores in the cluster will be licensed by Oracle. So, understanding this, it is important to designate a hypervisor cluster entirely for Oracle use only if concerned about maximizing Oracle licensing. Just my US$0.02...


Answering your questions directly...

  1. Does Oracle on VM (type 1) have notable perf issues ? A1) No. There are always issues in any configuration, but nothing notable, inherent, or pervasive
  2. Does license cost (or TCO) increase with VM/Oracle combination? A2) No, TCO will decrease with VM/Oracle in some situations (see comments above)
  3. Is RAC on VM widely used ? A3) I don't know
  4. RAC on non-VM or single instance on VM - which is good from a HA perspective ? A4) RAC is not an HA solution, so non-RAC on VM with either DataGuard or VMware HA/VMotion/StorageVMotion
  5. If VM is advisable, VMware or Oracle VM - which works best overall ? A5) I don't know. Oracle VM is probably less expensive, but VMware probably has better features

On 11/26/17 12:35, Andrew Kerber wrote:

My company, House of Brick technologies specializes in virtualizing oracle. I am not a licensing expert, I specialize in Oracle, and moving from physical to virtual.

I can say that rac works just fine on VMware, but with VMware HA, the need for RAC is much reduced.

Most companies determine that VMware HA is sufficient for their needs, though we have moved several from rac on physical to rac on virtual.

The performance difference between oracle on physical and Oracle on Virtual Machines is basically nonexistent. There is a certain amount of tuning that needs to be done to optimize performance on physical machines, but once tuned the difference in performance is non-existent.

We have been around for about 20 years, so we have a lot of experience in this area.

http://houseofbrick.com/expert-services/professional-services-consulting/
<https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhouseofbri
ck.com%2Fexpert-services%2Fprofessional-services-consulting%2F&data=02%7C01% 7Ciggy_fernandez%40hotmail.com%7Cd6c6126ad4374f8097dd08d5350c4791%7C84df9e7f e9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636473249208361186&sdata=3pdY7FvHI%2F%2Br lfgBl3fwEFgcd3l2y5VaNqcCBJPjakU%3D&reserved=0>    

On Sun, Nov 26, 2017 at 1:32 AM, JP . <jprem_at_outlook.com> wrote:

Friends,  

we want to move all our existing prod oracle databases (around 20 instance, max db size ~500G) from our old h/w (non-VM) to new ones. HA,easy manageability, performance,cost being the key factors considered for the new machines , would like to know if VM(type-1) would suit our needs.  

I was looking for "VM or non-VM" kind of articles (from a license, HA , performance perspective). But could not come to a conclusion. It's a bit confusing. Want to clarify with experts here.  

  1. Does Oracle on VM (type 1) have notable perf issues ?
  2. Does license cost (or TCO) increase with VM/Oracle combination ?
  3. Is RAC on VM widely used ?
  4. RAC on non-VM or single instance on VM - which is good from a HA perspective ?
  5. If VM is advisable, VMware or Oracle VM - which works best overall ?

Your advice and inputs would be very much helpful. Thanks in advance.  

~ JP ~

-- 

Andrew W. Kerber

'If at first you dont succeed, dont take up skydiving.'

 




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Received on Mon Nov 27 2017 - 15:57:27 CET

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