Re: oracle on EC2
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 13:05:09 -0600
Message-ID: <CAEueRAWV9HTk-SbyvZ=6gLGyYeCXaE1w5xB9tiTkm35gOGb7hQ_at_mail.gmail.com>
The problem with that alternative is that it requires downtime. Depending completely on the application and things like properly configured middleware and connection pooling, a RAC instance switchover is instantaneous while a Data Guard switchover always requires downtime. For many customers, the latter is not an option.
Seth Miller
On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 12:50 PM, Andrew Kerber <andrew.kerber_at_gmail.com> wrote:
> Well, where I was coming from is that you are already paying amazon for
> uptime and for the resources you are using. I didn’t really see any point
> in RAC, since it would probably be cheaper to scale up than scale out. But
> if your reason for RAC is for the rolling upgrades, I guess it makes some
> sense. Though I would consider setting up some sort of standby server at
> the new patch level when required, then just switch over to it when the
> time came rather than pay for the additional rac node and licensing for the
> entire time.
>
>
>
> *From:* Seth Miller [mailto:sethmiller.sm_at_gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 12, 2016 12:44 PM
> *To:* Andrew Kerber
> *Cc:* Adric Norris; Oracle Mailing List
> *Subject:* Re: oracle on EC2
>
>
>
> I'm obviously missing something here so I'll leave it.
>
>
>
> Perhaps someone else has a use case for RAC in EC2.
>
>
>
> Seth Miller
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 12:03 PM, Andrew Kerber <andrew.kerber_at_gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Rolling patching is a feature of oracle RAC. Its not unique in EC2.
>
>
>
> *From:* oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org [mailto:
> oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org] *On Behalf Of *Seth Miller
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 12, 2016 11:44 AM
> *To:* Adric Norris
> *Cc:* Oracle Mailing List
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: oracle on EC2
>
>
>
> Andrew, if I need the uptime rolling patching provides in EC2, how else
> would I get it if not by running RAC in EC2? Isn't this a use case for
> running RAC in EC2?
>
>
>
> Adric, I don't mean the frequency. I mean the amount of customers using
> JVM. Most of my customers don't use it so they disable it and don't bother
> applying the patch. However, I have no idea if my experience reflects the
> wider customer base.
>
>
>
> Seth Miller
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 11:19 AM, Adric Norris <landstander668_at_gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> If by quite rare you mean quarterly, then I agree.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 11:13 AM, Seth Miller <sethmiller.sm_at_gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> I disagree. Non-rolling patches like OJVM are quite rare.
>
>
>
> Would you choose not to use RAC based on this one exception?
>
>
>
> Seth Miller
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 8:57 AM, Adric Norris <landstander668_at_gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Provided that you don't include the OJVM PSU. That's a pretty big caveat,
> IMO.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 8:42 AM, Seth Miller <sethmiller.sm_at_gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Rolling patching.
>
>
>
> Seth Miller
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 10:37 PM, Andrew Kerber <andrew.kerber_at_gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Yes, I can understand how it can be done. But I can't think of any reason
> why.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
> On Jan 11, 2016, at 10:25 PM, Thomas Roach <troach_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Here is a document from Oracle about running RAC in public clouds.
>
>
>
>
> http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/database/options/clustering/overview/rac-cloud-support-2843861.pdf
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Jan 11, 2016, at 8:06 PM, Andrew Kerber <andrew.kerber_at_gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> I just can't think of a use case of RAC on EC2. Can someone enlighten
> me.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
> On Jan 11, 2016, at 9:17 PM, Jeremiah Wilton <jcwilton93_at_earlham.edu>
> wrote:
>
> I wrote this to help people who want to see if RAC on EC2 will work for
> them.
>
>
>
> https://aws.amazon.com/articles/7455908317389540
>
>
>
> Jeremiah
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Jan 11, 2016, at 7:12 PM, soumya das <soumya2home_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi guys,
>
>
>
> Thanks for all the valuable input. I have a question even though its not
> entirely related to subject. Is it possible to create a RAC setup on ec2 ?
> I did few googling and found that aws still doesnt support it. Has anyone
> of you tried it or have any clear picture on this? If you do please share
> your opinion.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Soumya
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 1:10 AM, Jeremiah Cetlin Wilton <
> jcwilton93_at_earlham.edu> wrote:
>
> Right.
>
>
>
> This is the license-related doc:
>
>
>
> http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/pricing/cloud-licensing-070579.pdf
>
>
>
> These are the docs to address the hypervisor support issue:
>
>
>
> https://support.oracle.com/epmos/faces/DocumentDisplay?id=1901155.1
>
>
>
> http://aws.amazon.com/articles/7455908317389540#FAQ1
>
>
>
> Jeremiah
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From: *"Seth Miller" <sethmiller.sm_at_gmail.com>
> *To: *"Jeremiah Cetlin Wilton" <jcwilton93_at_earlham.edu>
> *Cc: *"max scalf" <oracle.blog3_at_gmail.com>, "Oracle Mailing List" <
> oracle-l_at_freelists.org>, "Maris Elsins" <elmaris_at_gmail.com>
> *Sent: *Monday, January 11, 2016 11:15:16 AM
> *Subject: *Re: oracle on EC2
>
> Neither of these links reference licensing.
>
>
>
> Seth Miller
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Jeremiah Cetlin Wilton <
> jcwilton93_at_earlham.edu> wrote:
>
> Not really. There's also a doc for that :-)
>
>
>
> https://support.oracle.com/epmos/faces/DocumentDisplay?id=1901155.1
>
>
>
> I talk about it a little bit here:
>
>
>
> http://aws.amazon.com/articles/7455908317389540#FAQ1
>
>
>
> Jeremiah
> ------------------------------
>
> *From: *"Seth Miller" <sethmiller.sm_at_gmail.com>
> *To: *"Jeremiah Cetlin Wilton" <jcwilton93_at_earlham.edu>
> *Cc: *"max scalf" <oracle.blog3_at_gmail.com>, "Oracle Mailing List" <
> oracle-l_at_freelists.org>, "Maris Elsins" <elmaris_at_gmail.com>
> *Sent: *Monday, January 11, 2016 10:50:36 AM
>
>
> *Subject: *Re: oracle on EC2
>
> Does this mean that you have to make sure you are running EC2 instances in
> an Oracle VM hypervisor?
>
>
>
> Seth Miller
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 12:27 PM, Jeremiah Cetlin Wilton <
> jcwilton93_at_earlham.edu> wrote:
>
> There's a doc for that:
>
>
>
> http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/pricing/cloud-licensing-070579.pdf
>
>
>
> Jeremiah
> ------------------------------
>
> *From: *"Seth Miller" <sethmiller.sm_at_gmail.com>
> *To: *elmaris_at_gmail.com
> *Cc: *"max scalf" <oracle.blog3_at_gmail.com>, "Oracle Mailing List" <
> oracle-l_at_freelists.org>
> *Sent: *Monday, January 11, 2016 10:20:28 AM
> *Subject: *Re: oracle on EC2
>
> Maris,
>
>
>
> How are you licensing these databases?
>
>
>
> Seth Miller
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 9:29 AM, Maris Elsins <elmaris_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> We're running a configuration that addresses some of your IOPS concerns
> and it's basically one of the architectures from this whitepaper
> https://d0.awsstatic.com/whitepapers/aws-advanced-architectures-for-oracle-db-on-ec2.pdf
>
>
>
> - We have created our EC2 for Oracle DBs using Oracle Linux 6 (requirement
> for Oracle Smart Flash Cache)
>
> - We've set up ASM on multiple provisioned IOPS EBS volumes (SSD) for
> striping
>
> - We've enabled Oracle Smart Flash Cache on part of the ephemeral instance
> store SSD (it doesn't have even the tiny network latency that EBS volumes
> have, as they are local). And based on the AWR reports we see this works
> very well. And in fact with larger EC2 instances one gets plenty of
> instance store SSDs that otherwise are of no big use.)
>
> - We don't rely on EBS volumes' snapshots for backups, as we have a
> DataGuard set up and when needed we stop the recovery there and take
> snapshots from it (for cloning purposes usually). I'd think this would also
> work with "ALTER DATABASE BEGIN/END BACKUP" + simultaneous snapshot of all
> striped EBS volumes too.
>
> - We take regular RMAN backups for point in time recovery requirements.
>
>
>
> May be this is not exactly what you were looking for as you provided a
> link related to RAID configurations, but probably you can still extract
> something useful from what I wrote.
>
>
>
> regards,
>
>
> ---
>
> Maris Elsins
>
> _at_MarisElsins <https://twitter.com/MarisElsins>
>
> www.facebook.com/maris.elsins
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 4:44 PM, max scalf <oracle.blog3_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
>
>
> This question is related to running oracle database on Amazon Web
> Service. Just so i respect everyone's time on here, I would say please
> ignore this question if you do not work with AWS.
>
>
>
> We are running oracle some 11g and 12c database on AWS EC2 server. Most
> of the server have anywhere from 2 -8 EBS Volume attached(general purpose
> SSD), they are NOT striped or mirrored. Lately we have been seeing some
> performance issue(year end closing) with high IO wait time(60-80 ms per
> read), for some mission critical application we have moved the EBS volumes
> from general purpose SSD to Provisioned IOPS(PIOPS) and everything seems
> happy. But now we are coming back to some of the other application and our
> sysadmin says instead of moving everything from general purpose volumes to
> PIOPS we should just strip the volumes to get better performance.
>
>
>
> I agree with him, but my question if we were to strip the EBS volumes how
> do we deal with taking EBS Snapshot and managing them. We rely on them for
> our DR in another region. From what i understand about taking snapshot
> when your EBS volumes are stripped is that you have to freeze the IO before
> you do the snapshot to guarantee EBS snapshot consistency, see below link..
>
>
>
>
> https://aws.amazon.com/premiumsupport/knowledge-center/snapshot-ebs-raid-array/
>
>
>
> So i wanted to see what others are doing in the community
> to achieve higher IOPS and i am sure quite a few ppl are running oracle on
> AWS and also I wanted to find out when they say "Freeze IO", I am assuming
> putting database in HOT BACKUP mode is the wrong thing.
>
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