Re: Extended RAC on SE

It may not be necessary to disable hyperthreads on systems where you have more than oracle will use -- providing that does not violate the license terms.

The extra hyperthreads can still be used by everything else running on the server.

On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 4:38 AM, Tom Dale <tom.dale_at_fivium.co.uk> wrote:

> Hyper threading is just a hardware process scheduler,
>
> - the CPU lies to the OS about how many cores it has, and hopes it can
> schedule them better than the OS, the CPU has more tricks, e.g. out of
> order execution etc.
>
> i.e. try and keep the physical cores as busy as possible.
>
> As long as you have 16 physical cores, and oracle limits execution to 16
> threads, all will be fine.
>
> If there is a big queue depth then HT it can make a difference
>
> Old article but does show a 30% improvement in HT vs non-HT, I'm sure in
> practice it is not as much.
>
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/2774/5
>
> extra physical core = almost 100% extra core processing power, extra hyper
> thread = at most 30% extra core processing.
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 11:10 AM, Ls Cheng <exriscer_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> now choose... should I use threads or cores if we use Intel CPUs?
>>
>> I think someone did some comparison between hyperthreading and core a
>> couple of years ago, I forgot who though!
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 11:53 AM, Tom Dale <tom.dale_at_fivium.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Oracle has updated their licence doc with SE2 details
>>>
>>> http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/pricing/databaselicensing-070584.pdf
>>>
>>> Oracle Database Standard Edition 2 may only be licensed on servers that
>>> have a maximum capacity of 2 sockets. When used with Oracle Real
>>> Application Clusters, Oracle Database Standard Edition 2 may only be
>>> licensed on a maximum of 2 one-socket servers. In addition, notwithstanding
>>> any provision in Your Oracle license agreement to the contrary, each Oracle
>>> Database Standard Edition 2 database may use a maximum of 16 CPU threads at
>>> any time. When used with Oracle Real Application Clusters, each Oracle
>>> Database Standard Edition 2 database may use a maximum of 8 CPU threads per
>>> instance at any time. The minimums when licensing by Named User Plus (NUP)
>>> metric are 10 NUP licenses per server.
>>>
>>> This is a pretty big change :
>>>
>>> - a change to a maximum of 2 sockets, this will be a problem for anyone
>>> on a 4 socket server, even if only 2 are populated.
>>>
>>> - standard edition RAC now requires 1 socket servers, and as Mark
>>> pointed out these are very hard to find as data centre rack servers, you
>>> won't get them from the big vendors, HP etc, its only supermicro I know of
>>> who supply them.
>>>
>>> - Capped at 16 threads, but 16 threads on physical cores is actually
>>> quite a lot of capacity, eg Intel E5-2667 v3 (3.2 GHz, Max Turbo 3.6 GHz, 8
>>> core), considering you can't use multiple RMAN threads etc
>>>
>>> Andrea,
>>> I have not seen a list of chips that qualify for what license,
>>> Has anyone else?
>>>
>>> Tom
>>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 10:21 AM, Andrea Monti <ilsuonogiallo_at_gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi ,
>>>> in the past I was told by Oracle people that "multi-chip modules" only
>>>> refers to some unix-class processors (some IBM Power and SPARC processors).
>>>> Do you have any other clues about that?
>>>> Did anyone find some evidence to say that *any* x86 processor will not
>>>> be considered a multi-chip module?
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> Andrea
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2015-09-02 2:45 GMT+02:00 Mark Brinsmead <mark.brinsmead_at_gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> Yeah. And that "multi-chip module" language is a serious issue too.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is your CPU a multichip module? How do you know? Its surprisingly
>>>>> hard to find out, even if you *do* know the exact model of CPU.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 1:30 AM, Tom Dale <tom.dale_at_fivium.co.uk>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree Mark,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ​Finding single-socket servers is indeed tricky!​
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We have bought many servers from broadberry in the UK, they allow us
>>>>>> to have SSD's, lsi controllers and 4hr hardware support, at a reasonable
>>>>>> cost, they do some single socket servers
>>>>>>
>>>>>> eg
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.broadberry.co.uk/superservers-supermicro-servers/as-1012a-m73rf
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Full spec :
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.supermicro.com/products/system/1u/1018/sys-1018gr-t.cfm
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just configured one
>>>>>>
>>>>>> E5-2699 v3 Intel 18 Core Xeon 2.3GHz 45Mb Cache 145 Watts
>>>>>> 6x 800GB Intel SSD S3500 DataCentre SERIES 2.5IN SATA3 MLC
>>>>>> LSI MegaRAID 9380-4i4e 12Gb/s SAS/SATA RAID Controller, 1Gb DDR4
>>>>>> Cache, with Internal & External Ports
>>>>>> 10GbE Dual-Port SFP+ (Direct Attached) Server Adapter - Intel
>>>>>> E10G42BTDA
>>>>>> 1st Year 24/7 Support - Up to 4 hours after submission of ticket, up
>>>>>> to 5 incidents per year
>>>>>>
>>>>>> £9,618.81 Ex. VAT
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The E5-2699 v3 Intel 18 Core is a single chip processor, so my
>>>>>> understanding has always been it only needs one license, but I am no
>>>>>> licensing expert!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/pricing/sig-070616.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When licensing Oracle programs with Standard Edition One or Standard
>>>>>> Edition in the product name, a processor is counted equivalent to an
>>>>>> occupied socket; however, in the case of multi-chip modules, each chip in
>>>>>> the multi-chip module is counted as one occupied socket.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But as Alfredo and Svetoslav have said a change in licensing might
>>>>>> make this a pointless exercise.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh well!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 4:33 PM, Mark Brinsmead <
>>>>>> mark.brinsmead_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is true. However, finding single-socket servers can be
>>>>>>> something of a challenge.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The example cited seems to work -- unless that 18-core processor is
>>>>>>> implemented as a multi-chip-module ;-) -- but the majority of servers these
>>>>>>> days are equipped with at least two sockets. You'll also need to make
>>>>>>> certain your single socket server has enough network interfaces.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't know whether Oracle ever removed the language about
>>>>>>> multi-chip modules from the OLSA. If they haven't though, it (still) makes
>>>>>>> license management with SE very tricky.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 3:05 AM, Tom Dale <tom.dale_at_fivium.co.uk>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As I read it you can 4 nodes,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://support.oracle.com/epmos/faces/DocumentDisplay?_afrLoop=358910255816631&id=220970.1&_adf.ctrl-state=znnb3zko4_57#A5750
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Oracle Database Standard Edition can only be licensed on servers
>>>>>>>> that have a maximum capacity of 4 sockets. If licensing by Named User Plus,
>>>>>>>> the minimum is 5 Named User Plus licenses. Oracle Database Standard
>>>>>>>> Edition, when used with Oracle Real Application Clusters, may only be
>>>>>>>> licensed on a single cluster of servers supporting up to a total maximum
>>>>>>>> capacity of 4 sockets.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *NOTE: This means that the server capacity must meet the
>>>>>>>> restriction even if the sockets are empty, since they count towards
>>>>>>>> capacity.*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So if you have 4 single *socket* servers
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> eg you could have a single 18 core intel 2600 v3 with 512gb of ram
>>>>>>>> in -
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.supermicro.com/products/system/1U/1018/SYS-1018R-WC0R.cfm
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 12:40 AM, Fernando Andrade <
>>>>>>>> correo_at_fjandrade.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks _at_Joe
>>>>>>>>> The answer was in the referenced doc. 220970.1
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 6:33 PM, Sweetser, Joe <JSweetser_at_icat.com
>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Check out Doc ID 220970.1 on MOS/metalink (old school J ).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Short answer is yes but there are a few restrictions.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hth,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -joe
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *From:* oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org [mailto:
>>>>>>>>>> oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org] *On Behalf Of *Fernando Andrade
>>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 25, 2015 5:23 PM
>>>>>>>>>> *To:* Oracle-L Group <oracle-l_at_freelists.org>
>>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Extended RAC on SE
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi I recieved an extrange request for a client.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> He wants a extended RAC on SE, I have found this reference
>>>>>>>>>> googling:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://isu.ifmo.ru/docs/doc111/license.111/b28287/editions.htm
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Extended or stretch clusters are not supported with Standard
>>>>>>>>>> Edition and Oracle RAC. An Extended or stretch cluster is defined as "A
>>>>>>>>>> cluster where all nodes are not located in the same room"
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I havent found this paragraph in the documentation provided by
>>>>>>>>>> Oracle nor in 11.1, 11.2 or 12.1.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Any one with more information? Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> FJA
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> Fernando Jose Andrade
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.fjandrade.com
>>>>>>>>>> 0983032550
>>>>>>>>>> twitter: _fjandrade_
>>>>>>>>>> _at_Quito,Ecuador
>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------
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>>>>>>>>>> this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> Fernando Jose Andrade
>>>>>>>>> http://www.fjandrade.com
>>>>>>>>> 0983032550
>>>>>>>>> twitter: _fjandrade_
>>>>>>>>> _at_Quito,Ecuador
>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

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