Re: Extended RAC on SE

     It seems to go quite in the direction of this article http://www.techrepublic.com/article/oracles-biggest-database-foe-could-it-be-postgres/ .
They seem to forget they started their success by getting into departmental systems when a lot of CIOs were dubious about the ability of relational databases to handle massive amounts of data with decent performance, and worked their way up from there. They got into many companies on microvaxes, for those who remember them.

    It's a dangerous move at a time that I wouldn't exactly call economic euphoria, and when everybody tries to cut costs. Companies that have no corporate agreement may start using PostgreSQL for small databases, acquire competency with PostgreSQL, and one day the cost of migrating won't seem that high and lower than expected benefits.

Stéphane Farolt

On 02/09/15 06:09, Stefan Knecht wrote:
> https://blogs.oracle.com/UPGRADE/entry/oracle_12_1_0_22
>
> This effectively means that SE One is dead as of now. Entry-level cost
> (cheapest CPU based license) basically went from $2000/year to a
> whopping $7500/year.
>
> Unless you're keen on running outdated software, that you won't be
> able to update without paying massively more cash to Oracle.
>
> I don't quite get why they're doing that. Bad move IMHO.
>
> For a small startup I would dish out 2000 per year, that seems
> affordable to be able to build on a solid and supported software
> stack. 7 and a half grand? I don't think so.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 5:38 PM, Tom Dale <tom.dale_at_fivium.co.uk
> <mailto:tom.dale_at_fivium.co.uk>> wrote:
>
> Hyper threading is just a hardware process scheduler,
>
> - the CPU lies to the OS about how many cores it has, and hopes it
> can schedule them better than the OS, the CPU has more tricks,
> e.g. out of order execution etc.
>
> i.e. try and keep the physical cores as busy as possible.
>
> As long as you have 16 physical cores, and oracle limits execution
> to 16 threads, all will be fine.
>
> If there is a big queue depth then HT it can make a difference
>
> Old article but does show a 30% improvement in HT vs non-HT, I'm
> sure in practice it is not as much.
>
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/2774/5
>
> extra physical core = almost 100% extra core processing power,
> extra hyper thread = at most 30% extra core processing.
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 11:10 AM, Ls Cheng <exriscer_at_gmail.com
> <mailto:exriscer_at_gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> now choose... should I use threads or cores if we use Intel CPUs?
>
> I think someone did some comparison between hyperthreading and
> core a couple of years ago, I forgot who though!
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 11:53 AM, Tom Dale
> <tom.dale_at_fivium.co.uk <mailto:tom.dale_at_fivium.co.uk>> wrote:
>
> Oracle has updated their licence doc with SE2 details
>
> http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/pricing/databaselicensing-070584.pdf
>
> Oracle Database Standard Edition 2 may only be licensed on
> servers that have a maximum capacity of 2 sockets. When
> used with Oracle Real Application Clusters, Oracle
> Database Standard Edition 2 may only be licensed on a
> maximum of 2 one-socket servers. In addition,
> notwithstanding any provision in Your Oracle license
> agreement to the contrary, each Oracle Database Standard
> Edition 2 database may use a maximum of 16 CPU threads at
> any time. When used with Oracle Real Application Clusters,
> each Oracle Database Standard Edition 2 database may use a
> maximum of 8 CPU threads per instance at any time. The
> minimums when licensing by Named User Plus (NUP) metric
> are 10 NUP licenses per server.
>
> This is a pretty big change :
>
> - a change to a maximum of 2 sockets, this will be a
> problem for anyone on a 4 socket server, even if only 2
> are populated.
>
> - standard edition RAC now requires 1 socket servers, and
> as Mark pointed out these are very hard to find as data
> centre rack servers, you won't get them from the big
> vendors, HP etc, its only supermicro I know of who supply
> them.
>
> - Capped at 16 threads, but 16 threads on physical cores
> is actually quite a lot of capacity, eg Intel E5-2667 v3
> (3.2 GHz, Max Turbo 3.6 GHz, 8 core), considering you
> can't use multiple RMAN threads etc
>
> Andrea,
> I have not seen a list of chips that qualify for what license,
> Has anyone else?
>
> Tom
>
> On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 10:21 AM, Andrea Monti
> <ilsuonogiallo_at_gmail.com <mailto:ilsuonogiallo_at_gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> Hi ,
> in the past I was told by Oracle people that
> "multi-chip modules" only refers to some unix-class
> processors (some IBM Power and SPARC processors).
> Do you have any other clues about that?
> Did anyone find some evidence to say that *any* x86
> processor will not be considered a multi-chip module?
>
> Regards
> Andrea
>
>
> 2015-09-02 2:45 GMT+02:00 Mark Brinsmead
> <mark.brinsmead_at_gmail.com
> <mailto:mark.brinsmead_at_gmail.com>>:
>
> Yeah. And that "multi-chip module" language is a
> serious issue too.
>
> Is your CPU a multichip module? How do you know?
> Its surprisingly hard to find out, even if you
> *do* know the exact model of CPU.
>
> On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 1:30 AM, Tom Dale
> <tom.dale_at_fivium.co.uk
> <mailto:tom.dale_at_fivium.co.uk>> wrote:
>
> I agree Mark,
>
> ​Finding single-socket servers is indeed tricky!​
>
> We have bought many servers from broadberry in
> the UK, they allow us to have SSD's, lsi
> controllers and 4hr hardware support, at a
> reasonable cost, they do some single socket
> servers
>
> eg
>
> http://www.broadberry.co.uk/superservers-supermicro-servers/as-1012a-m73rf
>
> Full spec :
>
> http://www.supermicro.com/products/system/1u/1018/sys-1018gr-t.cfm
>
> I just configured one
>
> E5-2699 v3 Intel 18 Core Xeon 2.3GHz 45Mb
> Cache 145 Watts
> 6x 800GB Intel SSD S3500 DataCentre SERIES
> 2.5IN SATA3 MLC
> LSI MegaRAID 9380-4i4e 12Gb/s SAS/SATA RAID
> Controller, 1Gb DDR4 Cache, with Internal &
> External Ports
> 10GbE Dual-Port SFP+ (Direct Attached) Server
> Adapter - Intel E10G42BTDA
> 1st Year 24/7 Support - Up to 4 hours after
> submission of ticket, up to 5 incidents per year
>
> £9,618.81 Ex. VAT
>
>
> The E5-2699 v3 Intel 18 Core is a single chip
> processor, so my understanding has always been
> it only needs one license, but I am no
> licensing expert!
>
> From
> http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/pricing/sig-070616.pdf
>
> When licensing Oracle programs with Standard
> Edition One or Standard Edition in the product
> name, a processor is counted equivalent to an
> occupied socket; however, in the case of
> multi-chip modules, each chip in the
> multi-chip module is counted as one occupied
> socket.
>
> But as Alfredo and Svetoslav have said a
> change in licensing might make this a
> pointless exercise.
>
> Oh well!
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 4:33 PM, Mark
> Brinsmead <mark.brinsmead_at_gmail.com
> <mailto:mark.brinsmead_at_gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> This is true. However, finding
> single-socket servers can be something of
> a challenge.
>
> The example cited seems to work -- unless
> that 18-core processor is implemented as a
> multi-chip-module ;-) -- but the majority
> of servers these days are equipped with at
> least two sockets. You'll also need to
> make certain your single socket server has
> enough network interfaces.
>
> I don't know whether Oracle ever removed
> the language about multi-chip modules from
> the OLSA. If they haven't though, it
> (still) makes license management with SE
> very tricky.
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 3:05 AM, Tom Dale
> <tom.dale_at_fivium.co.uk
> <mailto:tom.dale_at_fivium.co.uk>> wrote:
>
> As I read it you can 4 nodes,
>
> https://support.oracle.com/epmos/faces/DocumentDisplay?_afrLoop=358910255816631&id=220970.1&_adf.ctrl-state=znnb3zko4_57#A5750
>
> Oracle Database Standard Edition can
> only be licensed on servers that have
> a maximum capacity of 4 sockets. If
> licensing by Named User Plus, the
> minimum is 5 Named User Plus licenses.
> Oracle Database Standard Edition, when
> used with Oracle Real Application
> Clusters, may only be licensed on a
> single cluster of servers supporting
> up to a total maximum capacity of 4
> sockets.
>
> *NOTE: This means that the server
> capacity must meet the restriction
> even if the sockets are empty, since
> they count towards capacity.*
> *
> *
> So if you have 4 single *socket* servers
>
> eg you could have a single 18 core
> intel 2600 v3 with 512gb of ram in -
>
> http://www.supermicro.com/products/system/1U/1018/SYS-1018R-WC0R.cfm
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 12:40 AM,
> Fernando Andrade <correo_at_fjandrade.com
> <mailto:correo_at_fjandrade.com>> wrote:
>
> Thanks _at_Joe
> The answer was in the referenced
> doc.220970.1
>
> On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 6:33 PM,
> Sweetser, Joe <JSweetser_at_icat.com
> <mailto:JSweetser_at_icat.com>> wrote:
>
> Check out Doc ID 220970.1 on
> MOS/metalink (old school J).
>
> Short answer is yes but there
> are a few restrictions.
>
> Hth,
>
> -joe**
>
> *From:*oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org
> <mailto:oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org>
> [mailto:oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org
> <mailto:oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org>]
> *On Behalf Of *Fernando Andrade
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 25,
> 2015 5:23 PM
> *To:* Oracle-L Group
> <oracle-l_at_freelists.org
> <mailto:oracle-l_at_freelists.org>>
> *Subject:* Extended RAC on SE
>
> Hi I recieved an extrange
> request for a client.
>
> He wants a extended RAC on SE,
> I have found this reference
> googling:
>
> http://isu.ifmo.ru/docs/doc111/license.111/b28287/editions.htm
>
> "Extended or stretch clusters
> are not supported with
> Standard Edition and Oracle
> RAC. An Extended or stretch
> cluster is defined as "A
> cluster where all nodes are
> not located in the same room"
>
> I havent found this paragraph
> in the documentation provided
> by Oracle nor in 11.1, 11.2 or
> 12.1.
>
> Any one with more information?
> Thanks
>
> FJA
>
> --
>
> ---------------------------------------
> Fernando Jose Andrade
> http://www.fjandrade.com
> 0983032550
> twitter: _fjandrade_
> _at_Quito,Ecuador
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> ---------------------------------------
> Fernando Jose Andrade
> http://www.fjandrade.com
> 0983032550
> twitter: _fjandrade_
> _at_Quito,Ecuador
> ---------------------------------------
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