Re: Extended RAC on SE

Standard Edition was valuable for many customers, the performance is good, the price is OK but with SE2 the entire panorama changes

On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 1:09 PM, Stefan Knecht <knecht.stefan_at_gmail.com> wrote:

> https://blogs.oracle.com/UPGRADE/entry/oracle_12_1_0_22
>
> This effectively means that SE One is dead as of now. Entry-level cost
> (cheapest CPU based license) basically went from $2000/year to a whopping
> $7500/year.
>
> Unless you're keen on running outdated software, that you won't be able to
> update without paying massively more cash to Oracle.
>
> I don't quite get why they're doing that. Bad move IMHO.
>
> For a small startup I would dish out 2000 per year, that seems affordable
> to be able to build on a solid and supported software stack. 7 and a half
> grand? I don't think so.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 5:38 PM, Tom Dale <tom.dale_at_fivium.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Hyper threading is just a hardware process scheduler,
>>
>> - the CPU lies to the OS about how many cores it has, and hopes it can
>> schedule them better than the OS, the CPU has more tricks, e.g. out of
>> order execution etc.
>>
>> i.e. try and keep the physical cores as busy as possible.
>>
>> As long as you have 16 physical cores, and oracle limits execution to 16
>> threads, all will be fine.
>>
>> If there is a big queue depth then HT it can make a difference
>>
>> Old article but does show a 30% improvement in HT vs non-HT, I'm sure in
>> practice it is not as much.
>>
>> http://www.anandtech.com/show/2774/5
>>
>> extra physical core = almost 100% extra core processing power, extra
>> hyper thread = at most 30% extra core processing.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 11:10 AM, Ls Cheng <exriscer_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> now choose... should I use threads or cores if we use Intel CPUs?
>>>
>>> I think someone did some comparison between hyperthreading and core a
>>> couple of years ago, I forgot who though!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 11:53 AM, Tom Dale <tom.dale_at_fivium.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Oracle has updated their licence doc with SE2 details
>>>>
>>>> http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/pricing/databaselicensing-070584.pdf
>>>>
>>>> Oracle Database Standard Edition 2 may only be licensed on servers that
>>>> have a maximum capacity of 2 sockets. When used with Oracle Real
>>>> Application Clusters, Oracle Database Standard Edition 2 may only be
>>>> licensed on a maximum of 2 one-socket servers. In addition, notwithstanding
>>>> any provision in Your Oracle license agreement to the contrary, each Oracle
>>>> Database Standard Edition 2 database may use a maximum of 16 CPU threads at
>>>> any time. When used with Oracle Real Application Clusters, each Oracle
>>>> Database Standard Edition 2 database may use a maximum of 8 CPU threads per
>>>> instance at any time. The minimums when licensing by Named User Plus (NUP)
>>>> metric are 10 NUP licenses per server.
>>>>
>>>> This is a pretty big change :
>>>>
>>>> - a change to a maximum of 2 sockets, this will be a problem for anyone
>>>> on a 4 socket server, even if only 2 are populated.
>>>>
>>>> - standard edition RAC now requires 1 socket servers, and as Mark
>>>> pointed out these are very hard to find as data centre rack servers, you
>>>> won't get them from the big vendors, HP etc, its only supermicro I know of
>>>> who supply them.
>>>>
>>>> - Capped at 16 threads, but 16 threads on physical cores is actually
>>>> quite a lot of capacity, eg Intel E5-2667 v3 (3.2 GHz, Max Turbo 3.6 GHz, 8
>>>> core), considering you can't use multiple RMAN threads etc
>>>>
>>>> Andrea,
>>>> I have not seen a list of chips that qualify for what license,
>>>> Has anyone else?
>>>>
>>>> Tom
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 10:21 AM, Andrea Monti <ilsuonogiallo_at_gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi ,
>>>>> in the past I was told by Oracle people that "multi-chip modules" only
>>>>> refers to some unix-class processors (some IBM Power and SPARC processors).
>>>>> Do you have any other clues about that?
>>>>> Did anyone find some evidence to say that *any* x86 processor will not
>>>>> be considered a multi-chip module?
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> Andrea
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2015-09-02 2:45 GMT+02:00 Mark Brinsmead <mark.brinsmead_at_gmail.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah. And that "multi-chip module" language is a serious issue too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is your CPU a multichip module? How do you know? Its surprisingly
>>>>>> hard to find out, even if you *do* know the exact model of CPU.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 1:30 AM, Tom Dale <tom.dale_at_fivium.co.uk>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree Mark,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ​Finding single-socket servers is indeed tricky!​
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We have bought many servers from broadberry in the UK, they allow us
>>>>>>> to have SSD's, lsi controllers and 4hr hardware support, at a reasonable
>>>>>>> cost, they do some single socket servers
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> eg
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.broadberry.co.uk/superservers-supermicro-servers/as-1012a-m73rf
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Full spec :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.supermicro.com/products/system/1u/1018/sys-1018gr-t.cfm
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I just configured one
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> E5-2699 v3 Intel 18 Core Xeon 2.3GHz 45Mb Cache 145 Watts
>>>>>>> 6x 800GB Intel SSD S3500 DataCentre SERIES 2.5IN SATA3 MLC
>>>>>>> LSI MegaRAID 9380-4i4e 12Gb/s SAS/SATA RAID Controller, 1Gb DDR4
>>>>>>> Cache, with Internal & External Ports
>>>>>>> 10GbE Dual-Port SFP+ (Direct Attached) Server Adapter - Intel
>>>>>>> E10G42BTDA
>>>>>>> 1st Year 24/7 Support - Up to 4 hours after submission of ticket, up
>>>>>>> to 5 incidents per year
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> £9,618.81 Ex. VAT
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The E5-2699 v3 Intel 18 Core is a single chip processor, so my
>>>>>>> understanding has always been it only needs one license, but I am no
>>>>>>> licensing expert!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/pricing/sig-070616.pdf
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When licensing Oracle programs with Standard Edition One or Standard
>>>>>>> Edition in the product name, a processor is counted equivalent to an
>>>>>>> occupied socket; however, in the case of multi-chip modules, each chip in
>>>>>>> the multi-chip module is counted as one occupied socket.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But as Alfredo and Svetoslav have said a change in licensing might
>>>>>>> make this a pointless exercise.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oh well!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 4:33 PM, Mark Brinsmead <
>>>>>>> mark.brinsmead_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is true. However, finding single-socket servers can be
>>>>>>>> something of a challenge.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The example cited seems to work -- unless that 18-core processor is
>>>>>>>> implemented as a multi-chip-module ;-) -- but the majority of servers these
>>>>>>>> days are equipped with at least two sockets. You'll also need to make
>>>>>>>> certain your single socket server has enough network interfaces.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't know whether Oracle ever removed the language about
>>>>>>>> multi-chip modules from the OLSA. If they haven't though, it (still) makes
>>>>>>>> license management with SE very tricky.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 3:05 AM, Tom Dale <tom.dale_at_fivium.co.uk>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As I read it you can 4 nodes,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://support.oracle.com/epmos/faces/DocumentDisplay?_afrLoop=358910255816631&id=220970.1&_adf.ctrl-state=znnb3zko4_57#A5750
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Oracle Database Standard Edition can only be licensed on servers
>>>>>>>>> that have a maximum capacity of 4 sockets. If licensing by Named User Plus,
>>>>>>>>> the minimum is 5 Named User Plus licenses. Oracle Database Standard
>>>>>>>>> Edition, when used with Oracle Real Application Clusters, may only be
>>>>>>>>> licensed on a single cluster of servers supporting up to a total maximum
>>>>>>>>> capacity of 4 sockets.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *NOTE: This means that the server capacity must meet the
>>>>>>>>> restriction even if the sockets are empty, since they count towards
>>>>>>>>> capacity.*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So if you have 4 single *socket* servers
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> eg you could have a single 18 core intel 2600 v3 with 512gb of ram
>>>>>>>>> in -
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.supermicro.com/products/system/1U/1018/SYS-1018R-WC0R.cfm
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 12:40 AM, Fernando Andrade <
>>>>>>>>> correo_at_fjandrade.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks _at_Joe
>>>>>>>>>> The answer was in the referenced doc. 220970.1
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 6:33 PM, Sweetser, Joe <
>>>>>>>>>> JSweetser_at_icat.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Check out Doc ID 220970.1 on MOS/metalink (old school J ).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Short answer is yes but there are a few restrictions.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hth,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -joe
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> *From:* oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org [mailto:
>>>>>>>>>>> oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org] *On Behalf Of *Fernando Andrade
>>>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 25, 2015 5:23 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> *To:* Oracle-L Group <oracle-l_at_freelists.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Extended RAC on SE
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi I recieved an extrange request for a client.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> He wants a extended RAC on SE, I have found this reference
>>>>>>>>>>> googling:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://isu.ifmo.ru/docs/doc111/license.111/b28287/editions.htm
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Extended or stretch clusters are not supported with Standard
>>>>>>>>>>> Edition and Oracle RAC. An Extended or stretch cluster is defined as "A
>>>>>>>>>>> cluster where all nodes are not located in the same room"
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I havent found this paragraph in the documentation provided by
>>>>>>>>>>> Oracle nor in 11.1, 11.2 or 12.1.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Any one with more information? Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> FJA
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>> Fernando Jose Andrade
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.fjandrade.com
>>>>>>>>>>> 0983032550
>>>>>>>>>>> twitter: _fjandrade_
>>>>>>>>>>> _at_Quito,Ecuador
>>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> Fernando Jose Andrade
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.fjandrade.com
>>>>>>>>>> 0983032550
>>>>>>>>>> twitter: _fjandrade_
>>>>>>>>>> _at_Quito,Ecuador
>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

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