Re: cross platform migration
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 22:52:09 -0700
Message-ID: <CADsdiQi7X8EN550wTPfYvLpqjT0x_CyD0g91w-Otug3_-cMOJQ_at_mail.gmail.com>
Disclaimer I forgot to post at beginning of thread I work at Delphix
Delphix is platform independent UNIX, Linux, Windows for Oracle, SQL Server, Postgres. The Oracle OS support matrix is on
http://docs.delphix.com/platforms<http://docs.delphix.com/display/DOCS40/_Supported+DBMS+Versions+and+Supported+Operating+Systems>
and HP/UX 11 is supported for 10.2.0.4
Best
Kyle
http://kylehailey.com
On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 4:57 PM, max scalf <oracle.blog3_at_gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Kyle,
>
> That is correct shareplex is certified by SAP but DBvisit isn't yet.
>
> Delphix sounds very interesting. I am going to look into it right away.
> Is it platform independent?
>
> Another reason why we are trying to do a POC with shateplex(and not golden
> gate) is because our old DB(10.2.0.4, db size are from 20 - 60 tb) are
> sitting on hp-ux pa risc 11.11 and oracle dose not support(golden gate)
> that anymore but shareplex dose. So I am hoping Delphix dose that as
> well. We are moving from hp-ux pa risc 11.11 to rhel (db version is going
> to be same due to some SAP kernal conflict).
>
> Thank you
> ------------------------------
> From: kyle Hailey <kylelf_at_gmail.com>
> Sent: 3/27/2014 6:01 PM
> To: max scalf <oracle.blog3_at_gmail.com>
>
> Cc: Jinwen Zou <zjworacle_at_gmail.com>; Svetoslav Gyurov <softice_at_gmail.com>;
> Jack van Zanen <jack_at_vanzanen.com>; oracle-l_at_freelists.org
> Subject: Re: cross platform migration
>
>
>
> Delphix is a Agile Data Platform. What does that mean??? It means that
> Delphix is all about getting data to the right place quickly, easily and
> for low overhead (i.e. agile = easy & fast ). Delphix enables cloning of
> the data many times in minutes for almost no storage overhead and it works
> for databases as well as application data.
>
> Shareplex is tool that reads Oracle redo logs and can replicate out the
> changes. Quite different. Why you would need Shareplex if you have DBvisit?
> Is Shareplex certified with SAP but DBVisit isn't?
>
> For more on Delphix see http://kylehailey.com/delphix
>
> Delphix is software that installs as a VM under VMware. Delphix connects
> to a source database and pulls in history of changes into a time window of
> data. Using that data on Delphix, clones of the source can be made in
> minutes onto other machines by externalizing the datafiles via NFS. It's
> all a few clicks of a mouse in a GUI.
> With a virtual clone there is no data copy. A virtual clone initial just
> sees the data -pre-existing data on Delphix. As the clone makes
> modifications those modifications are are also saved on Delphix but in a
> different location than the original and visible only by the clone that
> made the change.
> Virtualized data means duplicate blocks are shared. If a block is modified
> it's written elsewhere and kept private to the modifier.
> VDB = virtual database, i.e. a database who's datafiles are virtualized on
> Delphix.
>
> Delphix:
>
> - *Agile Data - *as stated above
> - *Cloud ready* - replicate 100s of VDBs into the cloud for fractions
> of the network bandwidth for SQL Server, Oracle, Postgres, Sybase (beta)
> and others coming such as MySQL
> - *Fully Automated* - everything is a few clicks of a mouse. On
> hardware and networks that are ready, it takes 5 minutes to install, 5
> minutes to configure. Initial link can run over night fully automated and
> the next day you can spin up VDBs in minutes.
> - *Open Stack* - support any data and databases (only supported
> databases come with complete automation) on any storage and on Linux,
> Windows, HPUX, Solaris and AIX
> - *Elastic compute - * spin up VBDs anywhere on the network in
> minutes, move VBDs, consolidate VDBs onto few machines
> - *Audit ready* - live archive database versions for Sarbanes Oxley
> - *Version Controlled Data* - tag, branch, rollback, refresh data and
> databases. Have a data control system connecting code versions with data
> versions for a fraction of storage required for full copies and it's all
> automated. Can be run by a developer.
> - *Open Stack Migration Option *- automates migrating Oracle from Unix
> systems onto Linux, this is huge
>
>
> - Kyle
> http://kylehailey.com
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 3:16 PM, max scalf <oracle.blog3_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Kyle,
>>
>> Thanks for your input. I didn't knew delphix is also SAP certified. We
>> are looking into dell sharepalex to do a POC. Would have happened to know
>> anything about that product. If so what are some pro/cons compared to
>> delphix?
>>
>> I am going to look into Delphix as well. Thanks for point me in that
>> direction.
>>
>> Thank you
>> ------------------------------
>> From: kyle Hailey <kylelf_at_gmail.com>
>> Sent: 3/27/2014 1:43 PM
>> To: oracle.blog3 <oracle.blog3_at_gmail.com>
>> Cc: Jinwen Zou <zjworacle_at_gmail.com>; Svetoslav Gyurov<softice_at_gmail.com>;
>> Jack van Zanen <jack_at_vanzanen.com>; oracle-l_at_freelists.org
>>
>> Subject: Re: cross platform migration
>>
>>
>> PS on the SAP part, Delphix is an Endorsed SAP Business Solution and many
>> of Delphix customers use Delphix for SAP
>>
>> - Kyle
>> http://kylehailey.com
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 11:23 AM, kyle Hailey <kylelf_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> FYI Delphix offers an automated cross platform conversion that only
>>> takes 1% extra storage on top of the original source database copy. The
>>> source never needs to be stopped or put in read only (as is the typical
>>> constraint withOracle RMAN method). With Delphix you can have both the
>>> original and the cross platform in the space about 1/3 of the original due
>>> to compression and vector mapping of the endianess switches.
>>>
>>> For details see
>>> http://www.oraclerealworld.com/oracle-cross-platform-provisioning-magic-from-the-mess/<http://www.oraclerealworld.com/oracle-cross-platform-provisioning-magic-from-the-mess/>
>>>
>>> which outlines how to manually convert the database with RMAN and how
>>> Delphix automates and streamlines the process.
>>> If you want to manually convert the database, the two links at the
>>> bottom of the blog are awesome. One from Oracle and one from DB Specialists.
>>>
>>> Cross platform conversion is much easier when endianess is the same.
>>> There is an RMAN convert database command.
>>> For cross platform conversion when the endianess changes, there is no
>>> convert database command. You have to convert datafile by datafile.
>>> You have to create a new database and you have to extract all the
>>> important data from system tablespace like users, procedures, grants etc.
>>> Bit of a pain,
>>>
>>> - Kyle
>>> http://kylehailey.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 4:55 AM, max scalf <oracle.blog3_at_gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> _at_Jinwen,
>>>>
>>>> Sad part is we do own licensing for another replication tool called
>>>> DBVisit and have used that for migration for other system(non-sap system),
>>>> but as these are SAP system the only way SAP supports its cross-platform
>>>> migration(oracle-way) is by either doing cross platform transportable
>>>> tablespace or using oracle's Golden gate. No other products are supported
>>>>
>>>> _at_oscar,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for looking at that, i always tend to forget to check at
>>>> edelivery.oracle.com. Looks like i will open a ticket with oracle and
>>>> hopefully they can get me the software...otherwise moving 30TB of data
>>>> using cross platform transportable tablespace will take long time...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 9:48 PM, Jinwen Zou <zjworacle_at_gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If you went down to logical apply path, some zero/real-time data
>>>>> integration/replication rivals of Goldengate might worth to have a look.
>>>>> Type "Oracle Goldengate vs " and plus another character [a-z] in Google
>>>>> search, Google will tip you the major rivals starting with that
>>>>> character.
>>>>>
>>>>> Shareplex from Quest (bought by DELL) who owns TOAD for Oracle as
>>>>> well, is one of the products used in one of my former company, it was used
>>>>> to replicate databases across data centers in high OLTP workload in same
>>>>> platform and same oracle version. However, I don't think cross
>>>>> platform/version will be problem.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 1:21 PM, max scalf <oracle.blog3_at_gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> hello all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Looks like GOLDEN GATE is in the picture for our migration now, but
>>>>>> one thing i am confused about is the supported version...our
>>>>>> database(version 10.2.0.4) is on hp-ux paric 11.11....and we are going to
>>>>>> go to linux(DB version still the same)...so my question is, can i still
>>>>>> install golden gate on hp-ux 11.11, i am unable to find any golden gate
>>>>>> version for that system or do i just have to open a ticket with oracle
>>>>>> support and ask for a older version of Golden gate that support our
>>>>>> 10.2.0.4 DB on HP 11.11......if i cannot use golden gate, what other
>>>>>> options do i have?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 7:29 PM, Svetoslav Gyurov <softice_at_gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Max,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sorry for not making clear. It's simply because you won't be able to
>>>>>>> mount the filesystem on the "other side" once you split the BCV. The CDC is
>>>>>>> a feature of the Veritas Volume Manager which provides you with a
>>>>>>> foundation for moving data between different systems within a heterogeneous
>>>>>>> environment. Just type *sfhas_solutions_601_lin* in google and
>>>>>>> download the first pdf which is *Veritas Storage Foundation(tm) and
>>>>>>> High Availability Solutions 6.0.1 Solutions Guide - Linux*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sve
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 1:13 AM, Jack van Zanen <jack_at_vanzanen.com>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One other gotcha is that Oracle RMAN convert can not handle
>>>>>>>> clusters with endian conversions.
>>>>>>>> We are working with support at the moment to get a fix for it, but
>>>>>>>> it has been a while now...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jack
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jack van Zanen
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -------------------------
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>>>>>>>> this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies.
>>>>>>>> Thank you for your cooperation
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 12:09 PM, max scalf <oracle.blog3_at_gmail.com
>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sve,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Golden Gate is out of budget here and also SAP dose not support
>>>>>>>>> that part. We were told to make this happen within the current license
>>>>>>>>> agreement.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Please excuse my knowledge here about BCV splits. But lets say i
>>>>>>>>> do not have BCV splits in place my process would be to
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1. put tablespace in read only mode
>>>>>>>>> 2. export metadata(transportable tablespace=y)
>>>>>>>>> 3. copy the export files and also copy the data files from source
>>>>>>>>> to target
>>>>>>>>> 4. run RMAN convert command on target
>>>>>>>>> 5. import the medata
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> so my question is why do i need that extra step of conversion the
>>>>>>>>> endiness at storage level(CDS)...is that a standard thing? Our storage
>>>>>>>>> admins are the one who takes care of the BCV splits and i am hoping if we
>>>>>>>>> are going to use the BCV splits then i dont need that CDS thing you talked
>>>>>>>>> about earlier, or if we do, is that a standard tool given by storage
>>>>>>>>> vendors(i believe our vendor is EMC) or do i need special licensing for it?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 6:55 PM, Svetoslav Gyurov <
>>>>>>>>> softice_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Max,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Indeed, you need to convert the file system first which will save
>>>>>>>>>> you copying all the 30TB of data and then you need to run RMAN convert.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Are you considering GoldenGate as an option or it would be out of
>>>>>>>>>> budget ?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sve
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 12:44 AM, max scalf <
>>>>>>>>>> oracle.blog3_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Sve, I was under the impression that i could just take
>>>>>>>>>>> the mount point from HP and mount it over to linux as i oracle was going to
>>>>>>>>>>> do the RMAN Conversion process for me. But you are saying i need to do it
>>>>>>>>>>> at the storage level(CDS) and then also do it at database level ?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 5:06 PM, Svetoslav Gyurov <
>>>>>>>>>>> softice_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Max,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, BCVs has been my favorite when we need to clone or
>>>>>>>>>>>> refresh the DEV/UAT environments. However these platforms still have
>>>>>>>>>>>> different endianness and you need to convert the file system itself. This
>>>>>>>>>>>> can be done using the Cross-platform Data Sharing (CDS) featureof
>>>>>>>>>>>> Symantec's Veritas Storage Foundation software which will allow you to
>>>>>>>>>>>> create portable data containers (PDC) and mount the volumes on different
>>>>>>>>>>>> platforms. I remember seeing one or two years ago similar presentation
>>>>>>>>>>>> (maybe OOW presentations) about using this approach and greatly reducing
>>>>>>>>>>>> the time for migration.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sve
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 10:42 PM, max scalf <
>>>>>>>>>>>> oracle.blog3_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sve/All,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for you input. i guess RMAN incremental
>>>>>>>>>>>>> backup/restore/recover is out of the picture and so is data guard. We are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> going from 10.2.0.4 to 10.2.0.4 (due to some SAP kernel restrictions)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> For that 30TB database all that Data is usable(cannot be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> purge/archived) so we have to move that to a platform, but one thing i can
>>>>>>>>>>>>> think of is for the big database we do have BCV split/mirror in place, can
>>>>>>>>>>>>> i somehow use that?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> For example
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. on source DB put all tablespace in read only mode and start
>>>>>>>>>>>>> meta data export(transportable tablespace=y)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. once in read only mode take a BCV split(in parallel) of all
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the datafile mount points and mount it on target
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. once the file system is mounted on target, start the RMAN
>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversion process (how could would this take, is this depended on DB size
>>>>>>>>>>>>> or what?)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4. once conversion is completed, start the import of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> metadata
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> if above can be used, only concern i have is we have probably
>>>>>>>>>>>>> about 2k - 3K datafiles(spread across 100's of mount points) or so and i
>>>>>>>>>>>>> might some how miss doing the convert process in RMAN for those data file
>>>>>>>>>>>>> or miss them while doing the import part(where i believe i have to give
>>>>>>>>>>>>> datafile = locations of all files)..any pointers here ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 3:38 PM, Svetoslav Gyurov <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> softice_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Max,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My comments are inline, I assume you are migrating 10.2.X to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 11.2.X ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 8:54 PM, max scalf <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> oracle.blog3_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello List,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a project that is going to get started soon and i
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wanted to get some Pointers with regards to it. Please excuse my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge, as i am from SQL Server background and a seasonal oracle DBA.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Project is to move our DB(multiple DB size from 1TB - 30TB) from hp-ux pa
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> risc to RHEL. We have quite a few restriction in options as our app is SAP
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-( . Couple of SAP notes i read suggested that we can use use cross
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> platform transportable tablespace, which is what i am planning to do as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> well. I wanted to find out couple of things from the list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. First of all if anyone has done this(on a SAP
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system), if so any gotcha
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. To reduce the down time i was planing to do a restore
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ahead of the cut over(lets say 3 days in advance) and then keep applying
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> archive log until the day of cut over. Is that even possible for this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> situation (as i have to do RMAN Convert of the datafiles and then keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> applying logs)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nope, you cannot restore/recover on a mixed platforms.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. i cannot do transportable DATABASE, as i am going
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from big endianess to little( i believe #2 is possible here, as i read this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doc<http://www.pythian.com/blog/howto-oracle-cross-platform-migration-with-minimal-downtime/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> )
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Correct, they should be having the same same endian and you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are migrating from Big to Little.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. I read an option some place that mentioned i could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have heterogeneous data guard setup for this migration, but when i read MOS
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doc ID 413484.1, i do not think hp ux to RHEL Data
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guard is supported or have i gotten that wrong.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Indeed, it is not:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> RMAN DUPLICATE/RESTORE/RECOVER Mixed Platform Support (Doc ID
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1079563.1)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. any other recommendation in general due to the size
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of our DB. The one i am worried about is our 30TB DB which takes about 18
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hours to do weekly Level 0 backup and customer wants to do the migration in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less than 10 hours
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does all the 30TB db having operational data ? Are there any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> read only or archive tablespaces ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. is cross platform transportable tablespace a bad idea
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as SAP creates thousands and thousands of objects in the database and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> metadata would be too much to export/import
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't think of a limitation of that one. You might export
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you metadata in parallel and also exclude statistics to improve the time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You problem here would be the time it takes to copy 30TB over the new
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> platform and then convert them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GoldernGate of course is the holly grail. Quick look on MOS
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shows that HP-UX PARISC is supported platform for Oracle GoldenGate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 11.2.1.0.6.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sve
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would really appreciate some pointers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Max
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
-- http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-lReceived on Fri Mar 28 2014 - 06:52:09 CET